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	<title>Comments on: Hoover and FDR</title>
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		<title>By: Gary Gibson</title>
		<link>http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/hoover-and-fdr/comment-page-1/#comment-1706</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Gibson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 19:06:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Parting Shot: 

Seems like our first missive from Linda Brady Traynham resonated with many of you. Most of the responses were like this one…

&quot;Linda Brady Traynham is to be commended for her insightful and pertinent observations of the small town. It is taking place here in Canada also, and impacting our lives in ways that we are not fully cognizant of, such as the local production of food. Perhaps the current economic malaise is a blessing in disguise in that it will force some balance into this social equation.&quot;

And more in that vein…

&quot;I read Linda Traynham&#039;s article and agree with much of what she says. Most small towns however, don&#039;t have a Dell problem, they have as Kunstler says a Walmart problem or an illegal immigrant problem. It is no doubt too late for suburbanites to relocate en mass to small town America. It takes a long time to be accepted into a small community. They will find themselves culturally lost and unable to support themselves. In my opinion unless you have a great deal of money where you are right now is where you will endure &#039;the long emergency&#039;. People would do well to prepare to supply the basics for themselves. Most will not. If Kunstler is right, and I expect the future to be closer to his model than to the &quot;charge it&quot; manner of the recent past, many will not survive. A man can rationalize anything when he is hungry.  Perhaps if we are really lucky we can make America what it was. I wouldn&#039;t bet the farm on that if I were you.&quot;

Agreed. 

But there was some dissent…

&quot;I think Ms. Traynham missed the point, as did Jim Kunstler.  (I have read his The Long Emerency and, while I like his addressing of the problem, he touches on the answer, but does not think it out.)  Deactivating urban and suburban sprawl will be done, in my opinion, by Malthus’ henchmen.  Ms. Traynham is right, the problem cannot be moved to the small town.  The problem must be eliminated.  When the cities die, it will be messy  It will not be a clean, government run evacuation and the establishment of a million small towns like Mayberry.  As Ms. T noted in the Dell scenario, you can’t move the big city to the small town.  It doesn’t work.
 
&quot;Jim Kunslter couldn’t address this issue either.  He simply did a hand wave and said that by 2025, most Americans would be living in small towns.  He never said they would be populated by big city transplants.  You have to read between the lines.  He did give a hint in his heading, &#039;Reality Bites but Entropy Devours.&#039;
 
&quot;In Jim Kunslter’s final chapter, he discusses a new, smaller America, but he never mentions the anticipated population of this America.  Or where the difference lies.  From my reading of the tea leaves, I would anticipate a decrease in USA population of 100,000,000 to 150,000,000 souls.  This would allow Jim’s change to go forward and would fit into the Malthus scenario of population control.  When Nature gets out of balance, it takes corrective action.  And it is ruthless.
 
&quot;To be prepared for the future also requires a degree of ruthlessness.  From Kunstler’s writings, I suspect he does not have what it takes.  From Traynham’s comments, I suspect she is unwilling or unable to carry her thoughts to their logical conclusion.  Survivors will have to develop a strong affinity with Nature and do the same.&quot;

I won’t argue with the Malthusian implications because they just seem too likely. What seven billion bipeds believe is sustainable probably doesn’t line up with what Nature thinks is sustainable. 

Actually, Shooters, James Howard Kunstler sent me this objection to the notion that he believes a return to town and country is the solution for the metroplex hordes…

I&quot;&#039;ve said that our suburbs and colossal metroplexes are entering failure mode.  But what I actually have said is that necessity will require us to return to traditional modes of occupying the landscape, namely villages, towns, cities that are scaled to the energy realities of the future, and a productive agricultural landscape that will be inhabited differently (probably more densely because farming will require more human attention). &quot; 

                                                                                   -James Howard Kunstler

Here’s a Shooter who seems to have the right idea…

&quot;I read Linda Traynham&#039;s article and agree with much of what she says. Most small towns however, don&#039;t have a Dell problem, they have as Kunstler says a Walmart problem or an illegal immigrant problem. It is no doubt too late for suburbanites to relocate en mass to small town America. It takes a long time to be accepted into a small community. They will find themselves culturally lost and unable to support themselves. In my opinion unless you have a great deal of money where you are right now is where you will endure &quot;the long emergency&quot;. People would do well to prepare to supply the basics for themselves. Most will not. If Kunstler is right, and I expect the future to be closer to his model than to the &quot;charge it&quot; manner of the recent past, many will not survive. Mankind can rationalize anything when he is hungry.  Perhaps if we are really lucky we can make America what it was. I wouldn&#039;t bet the farm on that if I were you.&quot;

And here’s an email that made me chuckle…

&quot;Hi Gary,

&quot;You have so much common sense, much of the time, but there seems to be so much that you just don&#039;t understand.
 
&quot;Instead of endless criticism, tell us how you would fix the economy...now.&quot;

I wonder if you haven’t been paying attention. I don’t believe in fixes and I’ve said so repeatedly. Sometimes the piper has to be paid. Whiskey credo number three: Sometimes there is no forgiveness, only punishment. 

The megalopolis and its populations are going to melt back into town and country. The ravages of private and public debt won’t be avoided…especially not by more private and public debt. 

I wouldn’t do a damned thing to “fix” this. I’d let it play out because tampering would only make the outcome worse in the end. Alas, most of the world and all those in power believe that there is a way to wiggle out of this mess…so tamper they will.

Prepare yourselves as best you can, Shooters. It’s going to get more and more interesting…

Regards,

Gary Gibson
Managing Editor, Whiskey &amp; Gunpowder</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Parting Shot: </p>
<p>Seems like our first missive from Linda Brady Traynham resonated with many of you. Most of the responses were like this one…</p>
<p>&#8220;Linda Brady Traynham is to be commended for her insightful and pertinent observations of the small town. It is taking place here in Canada also, and impacting our lives in ways that we are not fully cognizant of, such as the local production of food. Perhaps the current economic malaise is a blessing in disguise in that it will force some balance into this social equation.&#8221;</p>
<p>And more in that vein…</p>
<p>&#8220;I read Linda Traynham&#8217;s article and agree with much of what she says. Most small towns however, don&#8217;t have a Dell problem, they have as Kunstler says a Walmart problem or an illegal immigrant problem. It is no doubt too late for suburbanites to relocate en mass to small town America. It takes a long time to be accepted into a small community. They will find themselves culturally lost and unable to support themselves. In my opinion unless you have a great deal of money where you are right now is where you will endure &#8216;the long emergency&#8217;. People would do well to prepare to supply the basics for themselves. Most will not. If Kunstler is right, and I expect the future to be closer to his model than to the &#8220;charge it&#8221; manner of the recent past, many will not survive. A man can rationalize anything when he is hungry.  Perhaps if we are really lucky we can make America what it was. I wouldn&#8217;t bet the farm on that if I were you.&#8221;</p>
<p>Agreed. </p>
<p>But there was some dissent…</p>
<p>&#8220;I think Ms. Traynham missed the point, as did Jim Kunstler.  (I have read his The Long Emerency and, while I like his addressing of the problem, he touches on the answer, but does not think it out.)  Deactivating urban and suburban sprawl will be done, in my opinion, by Malthus’ henchmen.  Ms. Traynham is right, the problem cannot be moved to the small town.  The problem must be eliminated.  When the cities die, it will be messy  It will not be a clean, government run evacuation and the establishment of a million small towns like Mayberry.  As Ms. T noted in the Dell scenario, you can’t move the big city to the small town.  It doesn’t work.</p>
<p>&#8220;Jim Kunslter couldn’t address this issue either.  He simply did a hand wave and said that by 2025, most Americans would be living in small towns.  He never said they would be populated by big city transplants.  You have to read between the lines.  He did give a hint in his heading, &#8216;Reality Bites but Entropy Devours.&#8217;</p>
<p>&#8220;In Jim Kunslter’s final chapter, he discusses a new, smaller America, but he never mentions the anticipated population of this America.  Or where the difference lies.  From my reading of the tea leaves, I would anticipate a decrease in USA population of 100,000,000 to 150,000,000 souls.  This would allow Jim’s change to go forward and would fit into the Malthus scenario of population control.  When Nature gets out of balance, it takes corrective action.  And it is ruthless.</p>
<p>&#8220;To be prepared for the future also requires a degree of ruthlessness.  From Kunstler’s writings, I suspect he does not have what it takes.  From Traynham’s comments, I suspect she is unwilling or unable to carry her thoughts to their logical conclusion.  Survivors will have to develop a strong affinity with Nature and do the same.&#8221;</p>
<p>I won’t argue with the Malthusian implications because they just seem too likely. What seven billion bipeds believe is sustainable probably doesn’t line up with what Nature thinks is sustainable. </p>
<p>Actually, Shooters, James Howard Kunstler sent me this objection to the notion that he believes a return to town and country is the solution for the metroplex hordes…</p>
<p>I&#8221;&#8216;ve said that our suburbs and colossal metroplexes are entering failure mode.  But what I actually have said is that necessity will require us to return to traditional modes of occupying the landscape, namely villages, towns, cities that are scaled to the energy realities of the future, and a productive agricultural landscape that will be inhabited differently (probably more densely because farming will require more human attention). &#8221; </p>
<p>                                                                                   -James Howard Kunstler</p>
<p>Here’s a Shooter who seems to have the right idea…</p>
<p>&#8220;I read Linda Traynham&#8217;s article and agree with much of what she says. Most small towns however, don&#8217;t have a Dell problem, they have as Kunstler says a Walmart problem or an illegal immigrant problem. It is no doubt too late for suburbanites to relocate en mass to small town America. It takes a long time to be accepted into a small community. They will find themselves culturally lost and unable to support themselves. In my opinion unless you have a great deal of money where you are right now is where you will endure &#8220;the long emergency&#8221;. People would do well to prepare to supply the basics for themselves. Most will not. If Kunstler is right, and I expect the future to be closer to his model than to the &#8220;charge it&#8221; manner of the recent past, many will not survive. Mankind can rationalize anything when he is hungry.  Perhaps if we are really lucky we can make America what it was. I wouldn&#8217;t bet the farm on that if I were you.&#8221;</p>
<p>And here’s an email that made me chuckle…</p>
<p>&#8220;Hi Gary,</p>
<p>&#8220;You have so much common sense, much of the time, but there seems to be so much that you just don&#8217;t understand.</p>
<p>&#8220;Instead of endless criticism, tell us how you would fix the economy&#8230;now.&#8221;</p>
<p>I wonder if you haven’t been paying attention. I don’t believe in fixes and I’ve said so repeatedly. Sometimes the piper has to be paid. Whiskey credo number three: Sometimes there is no forgiveness, only punishment. </p>
<p>The megalopolis and its populations are going to melt back into town and country. The ravages of private and public debt won’t be avoided…especially not by more private and public debt. </p>
<p>I wouldn’t do a damned thing to “fix” this. I’d let it play out because tampering would only make the outcome worse in the end. Alas, most of the world and all those in power believe that there is a way to wiggle out of this mess…so tamper they will.</p>
<p>Prepare yourselves as best you can, Shooters. It’s going to get more and more interesting…</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Gary Gibson<br />
Managing Editor, Whiskey &amp; Gunpowder</p>
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