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	<title>Comments on: Hypercomplex Systems Will Fail Due to Scarcity of Energy and Credit</title>
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	<description>Whiskey and Gunpowder features articles on gold, oil, currencies, emerging markets, energy, and more.</description>
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		<title>By: Linda Brady Traynham</title>
		<link>http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/hypercomplex-systems-will-fail-due-to-scarcity-of-energy-and-credit/comment-page-1/#comment-4096</link>
		<dc:creator>Linda Brady Traynham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 21:23:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=5745#comment-4096</guid>
		<description>Dear Mr. Rich:

Charles suggests you change your brand of cough syrup, but he&#039;s a rough, hairy, very pragmatic and achieving sailor.  I&#039;m a Southern lady, so I don&#039;t say things like that.  There are different levels of &quot;reality,&quot; and the one we should be focusing on at present involves securing our individual supply lines.  Logistics are a lovely thing; they win battles and ensure that the larder is not bare.  &quot;Armies fight only occasionally but they eat every day.&quot;  The same can be said of families.  Philosophy of the brand you favor is a luxury.  LBT</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Mr. Rich:</p>
<p>Charles suggests you change your brand of cough syrup, but he&#8217;s a rough, hairy, very pragmatic and achieving sailor.  I&#8217;m a Southern lady, so I don&#8217;t say things like that.  There are different levels of &#8220;reality,&#8221; and the one we should be focusing on at present involves securing our individual supply lines.  Logistics are a lovely thing; they win battles and ensure that the larder is not bare.  &#8220;Armies fight only occasionally but they eat every day.&#8221;  The same can be said of families.  Philosophy of the brand you favor is a luxury.  LBT</p>
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		<title>By: Linda Brady Traynham</title>
		<link>http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/hypercomplex-systems-will-fail-due-to-scarcity-of-energy-and-credit/comment-page-1/#comment-4095</link>
		<dc:creator>Linda Brady Traynham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 21:06:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=5745#comment-4095</guid>
		<description>Dear Black Arrow:

Very nice, sir.    How about a future that is pre-Industrial Revolution?!  Throughout history there have been slaves, free men, merchants, landed gentry, kings, and politicians.  Today you can be a wage slave or live on the welfare plantation, establish a free hold, afford a big country place, be one of the hereditary wealthy (or lucky in sports or invent the home computer), or go into politics.  Far too many fall in the first and last classes.  The term &quot;share croppers&quot; evokes horror, but I think the time is coming when being allowed to keep half of what a man raises with someone else&#039;s cattle, seed, chickens, and land will be thought very desirable.  Sorry, but the capital outlay is too great now for a decent ROI on the land and machinery.  Hmmm...let me play with that idea.  There may yet be something in it.  Oddly enough, many of the old ways work splendidly.  Kunstler holds that in 15 years most younger people will have to work and live in the country.  I hold that most of them won&#039;t know enough to be worth what they eat, and a fine idea would be to plan ahead and acquire some skills and knowledge.  Ideas?  Linda Brady Traynham</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Black Arrow:</p>
<p>Very nice, sir.    How about a future that is pre-Industrial Revolution?!  Throughout history there have been slaves, free men, merchants, landed gentry, kings, and politicians.  Today you can be a wage slave or live on the welfare plantation, establish a free hold, afford a big country place, be one of the hereditary wealthy (or lucky in sports or invent the home computer), or go into politics.  Far too many fall in the first and last classes.  The term &#8220;share croppers&#8221; evokes horror, but I think the time is coming when being allowed to keep half of what a man raises with someone else&#8217;s cattle, seed, chickens, and land will be thought very desirable.  Sorry, but the capital outlay is too great now for a decent ROI on the land and machinery.  Hmmm&#8230;let me play with that idea.  There may yet be something in it.  Oddly enough, many of the old ways work splendidly.  Kunstler holds that in 15 years most younger people will have to work and live in the country.  I hold that most of them won&#8217;t know enough to be worth what they eat, and a fine idea would be to plan ahead and acquire some skills and knowledge.  Ideas?  Linda Brady Traynham</p>
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		<title>By: Linda Brady Traynham</title>
		<link>http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/hypercomplex-systems-will-fail-due-to-scarcity-of-energy-and-credit/comment-page-1/#comment-4094</link>
		<dc:creator>Linda Brady Traynham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 20:31:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=5745#comment-4094</guid>
		<description>Dear Dennisonschili:

I can never understand why Mr. Kunstler doesn&#039;t play with his reader mail because he gets such good stuff.   I AM a Philosopher (it says so on my University of Hawaii diploma, at least), as well as elitist scum (my detractors say), and I do not concern myself with society as a whole, how high is up, when the earth was created, and similar matters I have no power over or cannot document.  I work at putting together small oases of love, laughter, and self-sufficiency and think others should be responsible similarly for their own security and happiness.  No social conscience at all!  Utopia on any sort of scale always fails because there are always those who will not work and those who want to order the behavior of others.  There are far too many people and far too little cohesiveness of beliefs to have any serious hope of cleaning up the disastrous mess Statist policies and Balkanization have wrought.  &quot;Every family for itself&quot; will not change that, but it does allow those so inclined to pull back into reasonable serenity.  A fellow philosophy student once referred to mine scathingly as &quot;the most brilliant mind of the Eighteenth century.&quot;  I still think that a lovely compliment.  Life is about CHOICES and their consequences.  The article I&#039;m writing this afternoon (this is my version of a coffee break) demonstrates that an investment of under $5,000, very modest amounts of work, and a very few dollars a day can produce all the beef, poultry, milk, cream, eggs, and butter two families could use, and most of their vegetable needs, as well.  The problem is city, county, and state regulations forbid keeping a dozen chickens, a goat, a pair of steers, and a milk cow in your back yard!  Solution?  Look at your lives and see if you can move outside their spheres of control.  What America needs is the return of the yeoman farmer, a thesis which will give the Statists spasms.  It is much harder to control a man who produces his own food.  Your turn!  Philosophize away.  Cordially, Linda Brady Trayhnham</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Dennisonschili:</p>
<p>I can never understand why Mr. Kunstler doesn&#8217;t play with his reader mail because he gets such good stuff.   I AM a Philosopher (it says so on my University of Hawaii diploma, at least), as well as elitist scum (my detractors say), and I do not concern myself with society as a whole, how high is up, when the earth was created, and similar matters I have no power over or cannot document.  I work at putting together small oases of love, laughter, and self-sufficiency and think others should be responsible similarly for their own security and happiness.  No social conscience at all!  Utopia on any sort of scale always fails because there are always those who will not work and those who want to order the behavior of others.  There are far too many people and far too little cohesiveness of beliefs to have any serious hope of cleaning up the disastrous mess Statist policies and Balkanization have wrought.  &#8220;Every family for itself&#8221; will not change that, but it does allow those so inclined to pull back into reasonable serenity.  A fellow philosophy student once referred to mine scathingly as &#8220;the most brilliant mind of the Eighteenth century.&#8221;  I still think that a lovely compliment.  Life is about CHOICES and their consequences.  The article I&#8217;m writing this afternoon (this is my version of a coffee break) demonstrates that an investment of under $5,000, very modest amounts of work, and a very few dollars a day can produce all the beef, poultry, milk, cream, eggs, and butter two families could use, and most of their vegetable needs, as well.  The problem is city, county, and state regulations forbid keeping a dozen chickens, a goat, a pair of steers, and a milk cow in your back yard!  Solution?  Look at your lives and see if you can move outside their spheres of control.  What America needs is the return of the yeoman farmer, a thesis which will give the Statists spasms.  It is much harder to control a man who produces his own food.  Your turn!  Philosophize away.  Cordially, Linda Brady Trayhnham</p>
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		<title>By: Linda Brady Traynham</title>
		<link>http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/hypercomplex-systems-will-fail-due-to-scarcity-of-energy-and-credit/comment-page-1/#comment-4093</link>
		<dc:creator>Linda Brady Traynham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 19:49:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=5745#comment-4093</guid>
		<description>Dear Liberty Phile:

Delighted laughter.  Thanks for the compliment--and y&#039;all come on over to the Texas Ring and play.  I&#039;m a serious night owl and so is Gary.  Linda</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Liberty Phile:</p>
<p>Delighted laughter.  Thanks for the compliment&#8211;and y&#8217;all come on over to the Texas Ring and play.  I&#8217;m a serious night owl and so is Gary.  Linda</p>
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		<title>By: DurangoKid</title>
		<link>http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/hypercomplex-systems-will-fail-due-to-scarcity-of-energy-and-credit/comment-page-1/#comment-4089</link>
		<dc:creator>DurangoKid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 16:38:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=5745#comment-4089</guid>
		<description>First, my congratulations to Mr. Kunstler.  He knows the difference between flounder, a fish, and founder, to run your ship aground.  It shows careful thinking, which these days is in short supply.

Second, I&#039;ve been following Mr. K for a couple of years now.  Read the books.  Listened to the K-cast.  I&#039;ve come to understand that money, whether fiat, species, debt, what-have-you, is a claim on future labor or useful work.  On the downside of Hubbert&#039;s Curve you can issue all the money you want at any interest rate you want.  What you have to look forward to are diminishing returns on that claim.  And it&#039;s not just the hydrocarbons.  It&#039;s also copper ores, uranium, fresh water, topsoil, you name it.  Much of the entire resource base is in decline.  Deal with it or deny it, contraction is inevitable.  American exceptionalism has come to mean that we as a society are exceptionally naive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, my congratulations to Mr. Kunstler.  He knows the difference between flounder, a fish, and founder, to run your ship aground.  It shows careful thinking, which these days is in short supply.</p>
<p>Second, I&#8217;ve been following Mr. K for a couple of years now.  Read the books.  Listened to the K-cast.  I&#8217;ve come to understand that money, whether fiat, species, debt, what-have-you, is a claim on future labor or useful work.  On the downside of Hubbert&#8217;s Curve you can issue all the money you want at any interest rate you want.  What you have to look forward to are diminishing returns on that claim.  And it&#8217;s not just the hydrocarbons.  It&#8217;s also copper ores, uranium, fresh water, topsoil, you name it.  Much of the entire resource base is in decline.  Deal with it or deny it, contraction is inevitable.  American exceptionalism has come to mean that we as a society are exceptionally naive.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Rich</title>
		<link>http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/hypercomplex-systems-will-fail-due-to-scarcity-of-energy-and-credit/comment-page-1/#comment-4086</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Rich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 04:45:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=5745#comment-4086</guid>
		<description>our only hope is for at least a signifant number of us to locate Reality or God. This does involve, as Mr. Kunstler indicates,  having Reality beat the crap [delusions] out of us individually and collectively. However there is one delusion ,the &quot;ROOT&quot; delusion that  Mr. Kunstler did not mention - the delusion the ego makes in all of us ,telling us our bodies are who we are [thus the separate self sense]. In  Reality there is no individual or collective identity found . And yes Mr Kunstler , SMALL IS BEAUTIFUL and necessary. The statements in this comment come from the Premier revealer of Reality .Further statements can be accessed at  adidam.org .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>our only hope is for at least a signifant number of us to locate Reality or God. This does involve, as Mr. Kunstler indicates,  having Reality beat the crap [delusions] out of us individually and collectively. However there is one delusion ,the &#8220;ROOT&#8221; delusion that  Mr. Kunstler did not mention &#8211; the delusion the ego makes in all of us ,telling us our bodies are who we are [thus the separate self sense]. In  Reality there is no individual or collective identity found . And yes Mr Kunstler , SMALL IS BEAUTIFUL and necessary. The statements in this comment come from the Premier revealer of Reality .Further statements can be accessed at  adidam.org .</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Rich</title>
		<link>http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/hypercomplex-systems-will-fail-due-to-scarcity-of-energy-and-credit/comment-page-1/#comment-4085</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Rich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 04:12:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=5745#comment-4085</guid>
		<description>Jim Rich November 14,2009 5:07 pm:
Your essay on Hypercomplex Systems shows you are indeed a true philosopher. Until humankind  knows Reality we will continue to attempt to manage it. Bits and pieces of Reality have been given down thru the centuries and I feel you have contributed some of those pieces but since we humans can handle so little Reality whose to know which bits are indeed Truth or Reality. One sign would be that only Reality can be proven. this leaves out all belief systems until they are proven at which point they are no longer mere beliefs. So how do we go about proving Reality ? It  is certaintly  NOT by searching for Reality which searching actually prevents the Realization of Reality by projecting Reality into the future. The question is how can we end the search so that Reality can Reveal Itself since we humans all are hardwired for the search and not at all for the finding of Reality ? Are various religions claim to be revealers of Reality or Truth but then why do we call religions &quot;Beliefs&quot; which not being provable create so much conflict ,violence ,.and suffering . Obviously the god commonly believed in is not coincident with Reality. There is no God higher than Reality Itself and if we are destroying the earth and killing each other searching for Reality [or God]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim Rich November 14,2009 5:07 pm:<br />
Your essay on Hypercomplex Systems shows you are indeed a true philosopher. Until humankind  knows Reality we will continue to attempt to manage it. Bits and pieces of Reality have been given down thru the centuries and I feel you have contributed some of those pieces but since we humans can handle so little Reality whose to know which bits are indeed Truth or Reality. One sign would be that only Reality can be proven. this leaves out all belief systems until they are proven at which point they are no longer mere beliefs. So how do we go about proving Reality ? It  is certaintly  NOT by searching for Reality which searching actually prevents the Realization of Reality by projecting Reality into the future. The question is how can we end the search so that Reality can Reveal Itself since we humans all are hardwired for the search and not at all for the finding of Reality ? Are various religions claim to be revealers of Reality or Truth but then why do we call religions &#8220;Beliefs&#8221; which not being provable create so much conflict ,violence ,.and suffering . Obviously the god commonly believed in is not coincident with Reality. There is no God higher than Reality Itself and if we are destroying the earth and killing each other searching for Reality [or God]</p>
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		<title>By: blackarrow</title>
		<link>http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/hypercomplex-systems-will-fail-due-to-scarcity-of-energy-and-credit/comment-page-1/#comment-4083</link>
		<dc:creator>blackarrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 01:11:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=5745#comment-4083</guid>
		<description>I love Mr. Kunstlers articles, and find him a witty and extremely entertaining author.
He is perceptive, but I generally take his predictions with more than a few grains of salt.

Peak Oil?
Could be, I really don&#039;t know, but from what I see, there is still a lot of carbon in the ground left to squander.
Maybe when we get through all the natural gas and coal I will begin to worry more.
Sure things will change, but I doubt the long term change will be anywhere near what Kunstler foresees (I don&#039;t know exactly what this would be, but it seems to be some sort of a mid 1800&#039;s Yankee farming village populated with educated atheists...does not sound bad, just seems unlikely)

Big stuff is here to stay, although it may be in a much slimmer form.
I doubt power and human greed will easily roll over and die.
On big thing leaves, another will take its place.

I don&#039;t care for the idea, but increased global government seems a likely outcome to me. 
Probably take a few more wars and a lot of human tears to get there.

Not to say that folks won&#039;t have their spinach patches, and be able to elect people with the same accent to decide what to re-name the streets in the town...
I just think the actual power is consolidating, and has been for some time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love Mr. Kunstlers articles, and find him a witty and extremely entertaining author.<br />
He is perceptive, but I generally take his predictions with more than a few grains of salt.</p>
<p>Peak Oil?<br />
Could be, I really don&#8217;t know, but from what I see, there is still a lot of carbon in the ground left to squander.<br />
Maybe when we get through all the natural gas and coal I will begin to worry more.<br />
Sure things will change, but I doubt the long term change will be anywhere near what Kunstler foresees (I don&#8217;t know exactly what this would be, but it seems to be some sort of a mid 1800&#8242;s Yankee farming village populated with educated atheists&#8230;does not sound bad, just seems unlikely)</p>
<p>Big stuff is here to stay, although it may be in a much slimmer form.<br />
I doubt power and human greed will easily roll over and die.<br />
On big thing leaves, another will take its place.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t care for the idea, but increased global government seems a likely outcome to me.<br />
Probably take a few more wars and a lot of human tears to get there.</p>
<p>Not to say that folks won&#8217;t have their spinach patches, and be able to elect people with the same accent to decide what to re-name the streets in the town&#8230;<br />
I just think the actual power is consolidating, and has been for some time.</p>
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		<title>By: dennisonschili</title>
		<link>http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/hypercomplex-systems-will-fail-due-to-scarcity-of-energy-and-credit/comment-page-1/#comment-4077</link>
		<dc:creator>dennisonschili</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 16:15:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=5745#comment-4077</guid>
		<description>The author&#039;s contention seems to be that &#039;self delusion or perseption doesn&#039;t drive reality&#039;.   Very astute, too bad this arguement contradicts his opening statement that society doesn&#039;t do well when the public falls into the broad despair that is the opposite of hope.  So which is it, a positive outlook can&#039;t possibly uplift society because self delusion has no affect on reality, or.....broad despair will crush society because it drives reality?  What??  The author is no philospher.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The author&#8217;s contention seems to be that &#8216;self delusion or perseption doesn&#8217;t drive reality&#8217;.   Very astute, too bad this arguement contradicts his opening statement that society doesn&#8217;t do well when the public falls into the broad despair that is the opposite of hope.  So which is it, a positive outlook can&#8217;t possibly uplift society because self delusion has no affect on reality, or&#8230;..broad despair will crush society because it drives reality?  What??  The author is no philospher.</p>
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		<title>By: Liberty Phile</title>
		<link>http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/hypercomplex-systems-will-fail-due-to-scarcity-of-energy-and-credit/comment-page-1/#comment-4068</link>
		<dc:creator>Liberty Phile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 06:02:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=5745#comment-4068</guid>
		<description>Linda,

Glad I could give you a laugh!  And even more glad to know that my rare late night keyboard e&#039;opinion is appreciated.  Consider me a moved reader.  :-))

I must admit, the one thing that Mr. Kunstler does continue to demonstrate is how fortunate W&amp;G readers are to have writers like you.

:-))  All the best to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Linda,</p>
<p>Glad I could give you a laugh!  And even more glad to know that my rare late night keyboard e&#8217;opinion is appreciated.  Consider me a moved reader.  <img src='http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> )</p>
<p>I must admit, the one thing that Mr. Kunstler does continue to demonstrate is how fortunate W&amp;G readers are to have writers like you.</p>
<p> <img src='http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> )  All the best to you.</p>
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