Comments on: Is That Gold Bar Real? http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/is-that-gold-bar-real/ Whiskey and Gunpowder features articles on gold, oil, currencies, emerging markets, energy, and more. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 12:05:21 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Paul Kindervater http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/is-that-gold-bar-real/comment-page-1/#comment-9395 Paul Kindervater Thu, 02 Dec 2010 17:10:07 +0000 http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=6285#comment-9395 Can you bend a Krugerrand with your bare hands? Can you bend a Krugerrand with your bare hands?

]]> By: Gold Prices per Ounce are the same for Fools Gold | Silver Bags http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/is-that-gold-bar-real/comment-page-1/#comment-9354 Gold Prices per Ounce are the same for Fools Gold | Silver Bags Sat, 27 Nov 2010 08:29:23 +0000 http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=6285#comment-9354 [...] metal has yet to be found; however, some large gold bars have reportedly been replaced with gold plated tungsten. Tungsten, having a similar density to gold, is a heavy metal that has been rumored to have been [...] [...] metal has yet to be found; however, some large gold bars have reportedly been replaced with gold plated tungsten. Tungsten, having a similar density to gold, is a heavy metal that has been rumored to have been [...]

]]> By: dudley gozolo http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/is-that-gold-bar-real/comment-page-1/#comment-5257 dudley gozolo Wed, 27 Jan 2010 11:57:25 +0000 http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=6285#comment-5257 dear porter the creator of a fake tungsten 400 oz bar (mistakenly valued at $400,000) would be prudent to have an external gold plate thick enough to dent to fool you. that same hardness and brittleness would make it very difficult to make a tungsten gold coin economically. dear porter
the creator of a fake tungsten 400 oz bar (mistakenly valued at $400,000) would be prudent to have an external gold plate thick enough to dent to fool you. that same hardness and brittleness would make it very difficult to make a tungsten gold coin economically.

]]> By: dudley gozolo http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/is-that-gold-bar-real/comment-page-1/#comment-5256 dudley gozolo Wed, 27 Jan 2010 11:45:15 +0000 http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=6285#comment-5256 dear motley a pure gold maple leaf is 30 mm x 2.87 mm. if it was a flat symmetrical cylinder, its volume =2.03 cc the gold has a density of 19.30 g/cc giving a volume 1.76 cc. therefore the maple leaf coin consumes 0.27 cc in imperfections from pure flat cylinder the krugerrand is alloyed with cu wiki gives 33.93 g krugerrand as 32.77 x 2.84 mm (2.40 cc-1.76cc au = .64 cc occupied by shape & alloy and the eagle is alloyed with cu and ag wiki gives 33.90 g eagle as 32.70 x 2.87mm (2.41 cc -1.76 cc au = .65 cc occupied by shape @ alloy dear motley
a pure gold maple leaf is 30 mm x 2.87 mm. if it was a flat symmetrical cylinder, its volume =2.03 cc
the gold has a density of 19.30 g/cc giving a volume 1.76 cc.
therefore the maple leaf coin consumes 0.27 cc in imperfections from pure flat cylinder

the krugerrand is alloyed with cu
wiki gives 33.93 g krugerrand as 32.77 x 2.84 mm (2.40 cc-1.76cc au = .64 cc occupied by shape & alloy

and the eagle is alloyed with cu and ag
wiki gives 33.90 g eagle as 32.70 x 2.87mm (2.41 cc -1.76 cc au = .65 cc occupied by shape @ alloy

]]> By: Is That Gold Bar Real? Gold just to Me http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/is-that-gold-bar-real/comment-page-1/#comment-5247 Is That Gold Bar Real? Gold just to Me Tue, 26 Jan 2010 23:44:06 +0000 http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=6285#comment-5247 [...] post: Is That Gold Bar Real? tags: bigger-orders, carry-the-stamp, give-him, how-little, johnson, lucky, opportunity, [...] [...] post: Is That Gold Bar Real? tags: bigger-orders, carry-the-stamp, give-him, how-little, johnson, lucky, opportunity, [...]

]]> By: Motley Fool http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/is-that-gold-bar-real/comment-page-1/#comment-5246 Motley Fool Tue, 26 Jan 2010 22:02:21 +0000 http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=6285#comment-5246 I have done some further checking. The fineness as given on that site is not correct. They both have the same fineness. The content of the rest of the metals is also different the American Eagle has 91.67% gold (22 karat), 3% silver, and 5.33% copper, while the Kruger Rand has 91.67% gold (22 karat), 3% silver, and 5.33% copper. and 8.33% copper. Another disparity in data is that wikipedia says the two coins weigh the same. According to wikipedia the diameter is also identical with just the width differing.I'm curios which data is actually factually correct. Lets assume wikipedia is. This does not necessarily solve my problem, since the standard atomic weight of silver is higher than copper (107.8682 g·mol−1 vs. 63.546(3) g·mol−1. Furthermore the density of silver is higher than copper (10.49 g·cm−3 vs. 8.94 g·cm−3). So the Eagle, with greater volume (as indicated by the measurements), containing (for 3%) a denser metal( meaning less volume for same mass) than the Rand , weighs the same. I am wondering if there are differences in terms of the % of the ridges vs the total coin width's. Is it possible for you to confirm what data is actually correct. Also I would like to know if the volumes of these two coins are available for comparison. Calculations are hampered by the fact that neither is a perfect disk. Regards The Fool I have done some further checking. The fineness as given on that site is not correct. They both have the same fineness. The content of the rest of the metals is also different the American Eagle has 91.67% gold (22 karat), 3% silver, and 5.33% copper, while the Kruger Rand has 91.67% gold (22 karat), 3% silver, and 5.33% copper. and 8.33% copper. Another disparity in data is that wikipedia says the two coins weigh the same. According to wikipedia the diameter is also identical with just the width differing.I’m curios which data is actually factually correct.

Lets assume wikipedia is.

This does not necessarily solve my problem, since the standard atomic weight of silver is higher than copper (107.8682 g·mol−1 vs. 63.546(3) g·mol−1. Furthermore the density of silver is higher than copper (10.49 g·cm−3 vs. 8.94 g·cm−3).

So the Eagle, with greater volume (as indicated by the measurements), containing (for 3%) a denser metal( meaning less volume for same mass) than the Rand , weighs the same. I am wondering if there are differences in terms of the % of the ridges vs the total coin width’s.

Is it possible for you to confirm what data is actually correct. Also I would like to know if the volumes of these two coins are available for comparison. Calculations are hampered by the fact that neither is a perfect disk.

Regards

The Fool

]]> By: Is That Gold Bar Real? | CoinPack.Com http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/is-that-gold-bar-real/comment-page-1/#comment-5245 Is That Gold Bar Real? | CoinPack.Com Tue, 26 Jan 2010 21:50:04 +0000 http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=6285#comment-5245 [...] Go here to read the rest: Is That Gold Bar Real? [...] [...] Go here to read the rest: Is That Gold Bar Real? [...]

]]> By: Is That Gold Bar Real? Accident by about http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/is-that-gold-bar-real/comment-page-1/#comment-5244 Is That Gold Bar Real? Accident by about Tue, 26 Jan 2010 21:00:33 +0000 http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=6285#comment-5244 [...] the rest here: Is That Gold Bar Real? tags: coin, gold-won, highly-competent, nitric-acid, not-something | Dude, Is That Gold [...] [...] the rest here: Is That Gold Bar Real? tags: coin, gold-won, highly-competent, nitric-acid, not-something | Dude, Is That Gold [...]

]]> By: Porter http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/is-that-gold-bar-real/comment-page-1/#comment-5243 Porter Tue, 26 Jan 2010 19:44:08 +0000 http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=6285#comment-5243 Great post Doug. I would argue that it would be very easy to identify a tungsten plated bar or coin with a simple penetrating hardness test. Similar to chomping down on a gold coin this test measure the penetration of a hardened point into a surface at a given force. The specific gravity of gold and tungsten may be close enough to fool most people, however, the difference in hardness between materials is huge. The hardness of gold on the vickers scale is 40, tungsten is 2247. Forming tungsten into coins is not possible for the same reason. Great post Doug.
I would argue that it would be very easy to identify a tungsten plated bar or coin with a simple penetrating hardness test. Similar to chomping down on a gold coin this test measure the penetration of a hardened point into a surface at a given force. The specific gravity of gold and tungsten may be close enough to fool most people, however, the difference in hardness between materials is huge. The hardness of gold on the vickers scale is 40, tungsten is 2247. Forming tungsten into coins is not possible for the same reason.

]]> By: Is That Gold Bar Real? | USCoinBox.Com http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/is-that-gold-bar-real/comment-page-1/#comment-5242 Is That Gold Bar Real? | USCoinBox.Com Tue, 26 Jan 2010 19:43:10 +0000 http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=6285#comment-5242 [...] Read the original here: Is That Gold Bar Real? [...] [...] Read the original here: Is That Gold Bar Real? [...]

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