Pre-Existing Conditions?
This is further proof that both Republicans and Democrats are, to put it kindly, totally ignorant of some of life’s basic facts, and even common sense. Both sides want it to be compulsory for insurance companies to be forced to insure people with “pre-existing conditions.” Think about that one, with just a grain of common sense or a basic kindergarten knowledge of economics.
If you have a house which is falling down from termites, has a leaky roof, iron plumbing, stopped up septic tank, or whatever, and you approach a home insurance company, wanting full coverage for your house, and they say “you’ve got to be kidding,” should the D.C. Gang force the insurance company to issue you a homeowners policy? If you never cut your grass, never paint, never shovel snow off your sidewalk, and your neighbors consider you a menace, would any insurance company issue you a policy? Both Dems and Repubs might want big daddy government to force them to issue it, assuming the health care thing goes into effect. Why not throw pre-existing conditions out the window for home coverage?
Currently, there are scads of auto mechanical insurance policies advertising on the TV channels. If you have a true clunker which knocks, smokes, and leaks, would you expect an insurance company to issue you a policy? If the health care proposal for no pre-existing conditions considerations, why not for cars too?
If you were an alcoholic, with dozens of DUI’s, and a host of traffic accidents charged to you, would any insurance company issue you any coverage for any price, if they had their head screwed on correctly? If no pre-existing conditions can keep a health insurance company from insuring your health, why not force insurance companies to insure your driving habits, regardless of the risks?
Insurance companies as well as all businesses are in it to make a profit, and that’s the way it should be.
If you need a loan and go to a bank, shouldn’t they check your credit rating? If you have a credit rating of 100, have defaulted on lots of loans in the past, have no savings, your credit cards have been revoked, and there are tens of thousands of dollars still owed on them, would a banker loan you a quarter if he was in his right mind? If insurance companies can’t use pre-existing conditions to deny you health coverage, why not force the banks to loan you money, regardless of your credit rating?
If the Dems and Repubs have their way, along with Obama, and you have advanced cancer, Hodgkin’s, melanoma, kidney failure, or whatever, they want insurance companies to have no choice but have to insure you. In other words, by law or bureaucracy, the D.C. Gang in both parties wants to insure the death of insurance companies.
It seems to this amateur, that if you have a serious, incurable disease, or severe health condition which either can’t be fixed, or to fix it would cost several hundred thousand dollars, an insurance company wouldn’t really be interested in covering you for a hundred bucks a month. One of my best friends is in such bad health that he has cost his medical insurance company probably a million dollars already, and he is still living with myriad health problems. Bud is probably 150 pounds overweight, has never cared for himself, smoked for decades, has very high blood pressure, and did tons of drugs, in addition to being diabetic and having had several heart attacks. He is still covered because unless he misses a payment, his insurance can’t be cancelled. Believe me, he’ll never miss a payment! His insurance company is on the hook with a certain loser, but when he took out the policy, the insurance company thought him to be a fair risk. They were wrong, and are paying for it.
Denying pre-existing conditions as an excuse for not issuing a health policy, sounds just wonderful to the un-thinking boobs who occupy those offices on Capitol Hill. Do they ever really THINK?
Actuaries are in business to do risk assessment for insurance companies. They go over statistics, figures, probabilities, and risks. If the Demos and Repubs have their way, you can forget actuaries, because the D.C. Gang will force insurance companies out of business. The point is, once again, that both parties have destroyed America with stupidity, greed, and that ever-present ego governing us, when we need laws only to protect us from our enemies, and not ourselves. With every vote over the last 75 years, it seems as though each vote drove another nail in our collective coffins. The Tea Parties have plainly demonstrated that we have had enough of both parties, and we should throw them both out with a couple of exceptions. The Democrats are worse than the Republicans, I’ll admit, but there are far too many office holders who haven’t a grain of common sense, and I have had enough of both of them. I am no longer proud to be a registered Republican, but have not yet re-registered as an independent. Local Republicans are fine.
Regards,
Don Stott
September 11, 2009
Don Stott
Don Stott is the founder of Colorado Gold and has been selling precious metals since 1977. Don has been writing about Constitutionally-limited government, sound money and personal freedom for years. He has written "Common Sense II", a modern-day update to Thomas Paine seminal work. His articles have also appeared on Gold Eagle.
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Hey Don:
Another great article as usual. As you correctly noted, “common sense” has long disappeared – especially in DC but, unfortunately, throughout much of the rest of the country as well.
I continue to look forward to your missives.
Cheers, Tex
What about our freedom to buy insurance? Hardly anyone as they get older do not develop some pre-existing conditions. Some of those may not be minor. For the people who always had insurance but were faced with circumstances causing them to need to by personal insurance what are those supposed to do? The issue is not just about those who made a choice not to buy insurance in the past. Insurance companies report that between 10 and 20% of those who apply for healthcare insurance are turned down. Countless others are quoted rates so high because of their health history that no one with a normal income could afford it.
Hey Don,
Interesting how people who are past retirement age and are under the warm and comfortable umbrella of Medicare (i.e. the purest form of socialized healthcare currently in place in the US) or are wealthy are so opposed to for-profit insurance reform efforts. Sure, so what if a few hemophiliac or leukemia or stricken children or adults have to deal with a system that would just as soon as spit them out into an early grave as God forbid risk their CEO taking a smaller bonus or having to lay off a few miserable billing clerks, claims adjusters or medical review board members. Oh, I’m sure you’re not aware that more than 20% of our medical costs go right into the salaries and costs associated with the administrative overhead in our insurance system.
Explain to me also Don, the difference in the care decisions that will be made by a government employee and an employee of an insurance company who’s salary, bonus, retirement – and healthcare mind you – are all dependent on how many claims he/she can deny to patients and how much money they can save their company. I’d rather put my trust in the government employee, thank you. Under a universal care system, at least all boneheads like your friend who can’t afford care have a chance to go see a doctor before they get sick and get a solid ‘whomp’ upside the head for treating their bodies like a trash can and hopefully change their ways before the crash and swamp our healthcare providers.
Your opinions are obtuse, uninformed, childish and plainly wrong.
Hey Don,
So what about children born with autism? or cleft lip? or with some other deformity? Some conditions that people are born with are life-long. I guess in you’re cozy world, it’s too bad for them.
“Insurance companies as well as all businesses are in it to make a profit, and that’s the way it should be.”
I am left a bit speechless. I have to disagree with Whiskey & Gunpowder on this. I agree that people who decline insurance that is available to them should be reviewing for insurability, and subject to pre-existing since they have not been paying in, and yes what sense would it make to take insurance, it would be better to get insurance once you are sick. HOWEVER, when people have had health insurance all their lives, but due to job less, etc and exhausting COBRA or money to pay for COBRA they end up without insurance, they should not be subject to preexisting when they get a new job with health insurance or when they take out major medical on their own. ‘
Also… blaming overweight people for healthcare costs is a common scapegoat right now. This is simply discrimination that has been condoned. Yes, some should eat healthy, get more exercise, blah blah blah, but we all get sick at some point. It would be interesting to find out if the obesity is the true cause of the illnesses or could it be that the illnesses cause the obesity. I know I am no scientist or PHD but in real life the statistics are only that statistics, one can be perfect weight, perfect cholesterol, etc and can still die from a stroke, heart attack.
Excellent article, as always, Mr. Stott. You mention COBRA, which is ruinously expensive. When I was widowed, our 20-year-old son was in college, and I was then, and am now, in excellent health (as well as overweight and a heavy smoker!) I looked at NINE THOUSAND DOLLARS a year and said, “No, thank you.” In the next three years Andrew had to go to the doctor once, and so did I. This cost $200 in total. Eventually he did one skateboard trick too many and I ended up with $12,000 in surgeon’s bills and therapy, but I was still ahead by two-thirds of what I would have spent. I suppose I should have looked into some sort of coverage for extraordinary events, but even if there weren’t any available it still makes more sense for many of us to bet on our health and our behavior. Perhaps we can’t insure against a kid breaking an obscure bone, but we can decide that we don’t need any $1200 office visits. I’m on Social Security, now, and the government withholds about a hundred dollars a month against my will. In general I go in once a year for a check up, which makes a $1200 office visit, since dental and ocular care are not covered. I don’t have to pay for Medicare. They’ll be glad to keep all of the money.
One day people will wake and realize that Republicans and Democrats are the same thing . That Rush Limbaugh is a tool of the party and George Bush was no conservative. Why is that when our share of debt went for 20k to 40k under W and their was not one out bit of dissent for the so called conservative Republicans? My guess is that they were all to busy lining their pockets like Billy Tauzin and his trillion dollar medicare supplement plan ,or maybe they were to busy planning bridges to nowhere all conceived by Republicans from Alaska . The bridge may of not got built but the money was spent on roads to nowhere in Alaska and Palin was a Liar. I guess they too busy trying silence Ron Paul and showing of their hypocrisy as he was against this waste. But My guess is we will keep on acting like they are 2 different parties and pretending their isa difference.
Well, I agree you are an ametuer. By providing nothing but outlandish anecdotal evidence, you miss the point. Medical care is too expensive to pay for out of pocket, since the rates charged by docs are usually a percentage of allowable set by the insurance company. Try ending up with one preexisting condition-melanoma, colon cancer, etc. before you are eligible for Medicare and you could be bankrupt. Effectively you cannot move from your job if you have employer coverage, or you cannot move out of your state if you have individual coverage. And please don’t bother going on about “you can’t see the doctor of your choice under a state plan.” The only people who have a choice of docs now ARE under a government plan-called Medicare.
I disagree with this article. You give an example about a broken down house, let me give you an example where I think it is unjust to exclude health care coverage. Lets say I went to college and have a decent job. I exercise regularly and also play sports to keep in shape. I tear my ACL knee ligament playing sports, which is covered by my insurance. After spending 8 years in the corporate world I get an MBA and develop a business plan to start my own business. By quitting the corporate world and getting my own private insurance I now can not obtain coverage on my knee. Even if I’m in a car accident that destroys my knee, I have to chose to not walk or go broke. This is the current reality and why so many entrepreneurs sit on the sideline satisfied with their corporate salary. I give this example to show that are plenty of instances of non overweight, non alcoholics are affected by the pre-existing clause. With that being said I’m not advocating having free insurance or magically thinking that the government is going to solve problems. Its a complicated issue. I think a reward system that returns some money back to people who do not make claims and can pass a physical fitness test is needed to encourage people to take care of themselves. I also think a get what you pay for system is in order if you pay less you can get an educated but non AMA approved person reading a flowchart to take care of basic medical concerns.
If 7 subjects were enough for James Lind to prove that vitamin C prevents scurvy, so much for Catherine’s comment. I’m still having fun with house insurance. Four or five tons of pecan tree, planted in 1843, fell on the roof two and a half weeks ago. It has been raining in the house ever since, despite all our efforts, and the Insurance people say they’re working on it and mildew damage isn’t covered. Tomorrow I’ll find out about the kitchen lights, now knocked out of commission. How about if a fire starts? Who knows? Insurance is a very mixed blessing.
[...] If you have a house which is falling down from termites, has a leaky roof, iron plumbing, stopped up… [...]
The key isn’t to descriminate against pre-exisiting coditions (which sometimes people have no control over), but to descriminate based on lifestyle choices. If you want to be fat, a smoker, do drugs IMO, that’s your right. BUT, you should pay more for health insurance.
One easy way to do this would be get evaluated by your doctor as your yealy physical. If you are “fit” you would get significant discounts on your premiums (yes for kids too).
That way you are encouraging people to live healthy, but leaving it to them as a free choice. Also, this stops the subsidies for people to choose to live unhealthy.
[...] FOR THE COMPLETE STORY FOLLOW THIS LINK. [...]
Don, I’m shaking my sweet, dear, old head wondering what all the fuss and feathers is about. I thought you wrote a nice, sensible, non-controversial article! Do I sympathize with the parents of a child born with a cleft palate? Of course I do. Should all of us pitch in to pay for it? Obviously not. Insurance is a BET we make, risking a known sum against a possibility. The Insurance company assesses the bet and has lots of experts to analyze all of the risks and frame the terms, exactly as it should. Neither side has to take the bet. All year long the premiums on the ranch house were “wasted.” When nearly half of a tree planted in 1843 fell on the roof, they were clearly a sensible expense. There is no reason why the many should be penalized for the benefit of the few. LBT
This article is predicated on the assumption that health care should be for profit. But the end result is that a high percentage of people who are sick are quickly dumped by the insurance company at the time when help is most needed. I just read that battered women are considered a “pre-existing condition” How crazy is that? Also, does a health insurance CEO really need to earn $5,000 a day? If you think about how he gets that money, it’s on a body count.
Shame on all of you. And if you think you aren’t already paying in some way for people who aren’t insured, you remain clueless.
@rancherlady: “Do I sympathize with the parents of a child born with a cleft palate? Of course I do. Should all of us pitch in to pay for it? Obviously not. ”
Heartless. Its one thing for people to abuse themselves and ask that others pay the cost. Its entirely another thing to stand by and watch people suffer who are stricken with problems beyond their control. They are punished with pain, disfiguration, early death, and bankruptcy.
I hope to dear God that all of you who agree with rancherlady and Don Stott never get a serious illness. You sick, heartless bastards if you agree with them. And you’d better hope there more of us like me than like them if you do get ill…
Dear pre-existing Heartlessness: I’ll take your word for it that you were born that way. There is only so much time and money in the world. What the govt. takes by force I cannot give freely and mine has been a lifetime of charity and service. All 3 dogs were rescued, both hands are former homeless who have real security, dignity, and work they love. I have been raped for your easy compassion all my life. I do without for faceless strangers who are neither deserving nor grateful and your ilk insults me. What have YOU done for your fellow man? My, are you espousing (gasp) Christian principles? Expect an article that tells you how I really feel–if it isn’t too hot to print. MINE won’t even have vile words in it.
@ rancherlady:
If your vision of society is so shallow that helping people survive serious health problems they didn’t bring on themselves is too high a price to pay, I hope to be long dead before such a vision is realized. Its a good thing doctors have more compassion than you. I normally really, really like what Don Stott writes, but his view, and yours, on this topic could only come out of the mouths of ignorant people who themselves A.) have never had a life threatening illness, and B.) believe they have enough cash to pay whatever it would cost if they did get really sick. This is truly an “I’ve got mine, so to hell with you, even if it means your very life” attitude. What you do with your ranch hands and your dogs is your business. I could care less. Your religion, too. Oh, and screw your fake indignity at my use of the word “bastards”. If the shoe fits, rancherlady…
rancherlady–
I normally really, really like what Don Stott writes, but his view, and yours, on this topic could only come out of the mouths of ignorant people who themselves A.) have never had a life threatening illness, and B.) believe they have enough cash to pay whatever it would cost if they did get really sick. This is truly an “I’ve got mine, so to hell with you, even if it means your very life” attitude. Sounds pretty heartless to me.
That article is pathetic.
You have clearly demonstrated that health insurance should not be left in the hands of the private insurance companies. There is no profit in helping those who need help the most.
Healthcare should be left to the gouvernment like it is in the rest of the civilized world.
You can look at it another way, there is a wildfire on the outskirts of LA.
There is a wildfire in the area almost every year, with milions of dollars being spent on putting the fires out.
Think about it, why should i spend my money (through taxes) to protect some rich movie star’s home in the hills?
If they decided to build in a natural burn zone, let the damn thing burn or let them hire a bunch of fire fighters from their own pocket. That makes sense doesn’t it?
The idea is that everybody pitches in a little and takes out what they need when they really need it.
You are just pathetic.
Better yet,
Currently the US spends more money on it’s military than ALL other countries combined.
How about cutting down the military spending, let’s say 2x what the next country in the world spends?
End useless wars and occupations of foreign lands that the US has no business in being.
There’s all the money you need to fix the budget, bring education to a reasonable level and give all citizens universal healthcare.
Dear Hubert: What makes you think I’m in favor of publicly-funded fire departments?! The only thing you said was right was that you shouldn’t pay to keep someone else’s house from burning. Send me your address if you want to debate this–civilly–at length. Linda Brady Traynham
I have a life-threatening condition. Working on this newsletter for this company and in this bunghole of a city is making me deathly ill. I’m serious. I may not survive this.
If you all had any compassion, you’d pool your money and send it to me so that I could quit this life-draining job and go live in the country and train for powerlifting meets.
So please, put your money where your mouth is. Support me so my health improves and I won’t have to risk my life by living in Baltimore and spending my days taking insults from a quarter million strangers who keep reading my newsletter.
I hope Mr. Stott will comment on this, from the NYT about insurers bundling policies into…oh hell let them state it::
“…The bankers plan to buy “life settlements,” life insurance policies that ill and elderly people sell for cash — $400,000 for a $1 million policy, say, depending on the life expectancy of the insured person. Then they plan to “securitize” these policies, in Wall Street jargon, by packaging hundreds or thousands together into bonds. They will then resell those bonds to investors, like big pension funds, who will receive the payouts when people with the insurance die. ”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09......html?_r=1
Matthew wrote: The key isn’t to descriminate against pre-exisiting coditions (which sometimes people have no control over), but to descriminate based on lifestyle choices. If you want to be fat, a smoker, do drugs IMO, that’s your right. BUT, you should pay more for health insurance.
One easy way to do this would be get evaluated by your doctor as your yealy physical. If you are “fit” you would get significant discounts on your premiums (yes for kids too).
That way you are encouraging people to live healthy, but leaving it to them as a free choice. Also, this stops the subsidies for people to choose to live unhealthy.”
Dear Matthew: I’m a fat smoker who gets glittering reports on her yearly physicals. Do I still get a discount? Regards, LBT
Gary, you adorable goof…I offered you a job! The pay is lousy and there is no glory, but ah! the blessed fresh country air…free range eggs…dinky cows that will eat out of your hand and gaze at you with enormous adoring eyes…fantastic companionship…full board and your very own trailer to live in, utilities included… the “uniform” the hands wear, which is jungle fatigues…Maker’s Mark included…a large university nearby to “hunt coeds” at…not a mugger in at least 15 miles and not many there…hey, money isn’t everything! Good, clean ranch chores, no set hours, all expenses paid, and two hundred a week take-home, what more could a fellow want?! Get started now on the James Howard Kunstler movement. Love, Linda
Dear Some Compassion: You wrote “I normally really, really like what Don Stott writes, but his view, and yours, on this topic could only come out of the mouths of ignorant people who themselves A.) have never had a life threatening illness, and B.) believe they have enough cash to pay whatever it would cost if they did get really sick. This is truly an “I’ve got mine, so to hell with you, even if it means your very life” attitude. Sounds pretty heartless to me.” Yup, heartless little old me. I take care of my health, I earn what I get through hard work, intelligence, and following the rules that used to lead to success in America before the fiscal rapists starting smirking about “we just want a LITTLE of your wealth to help the poor.” What have YOU done to demonstrate “compassion?” What did it cost you? What did YOU do without so others could have “free” food, health care, housing, and “earned income credits” on one day of work a year? Why was it worth it to you? What did your children do without so you could play Santa Claus? Oh, go read Atlas Shrugged.
Hubert: “The idea is that everybody pitches in a little and takes out what they need when they really need it.” is called socialism. Go live in Australia.
Pre-existing, also writing as “Some Compassion,” in case you think you can fool professional editors who can tell time, my indignation, not “indignity,” is real. Petty minds use vulgar language. Feeble minds think Santa Claus is their neighbors. What have YOU done without for the “less fortunate,” and WHY? Did your children do without for your “compassion?” If not, you must not have given enough away. Oh, go read Atlas Shrugged and stop insulting those who think and take care of ourselves. You couldn’t come up with a shoe that fits me if I gave you my size. What do you do when you aren’t spouting socialism? An apology says you’re a taker, not a contributor.
Hi, Gun-totin’ Wacko: Mr. Stott does not answer comments, which is why I pig his happily. Ask Gary for my address and we can discuss this very interesting comment by the insurance companies! LBT
I continue to be amazed at the confusion/blending of concepts when it comes to “Heatlthcare”, “Health insurance”, “Fair” and “Compassion”.
1) Healthcare and Health Insurance are not synonymous.
2) Insurance is a “profit making” endeavor, much like gambling. Usually the house wins in the long run.
3) Fair is a man-made concept.
Life is not FAIR. No amount of government meddling can make it fair. It is a food chain.
4) Compassion. Not sure where to start, societies are complicated. Some of the cruelest things are done under the name of compassion. The pain of the “unfunded” life should be a natural deterrent to making unsustainable choices. As a society, we give and receive help, actions. Today most think money and usually someone else’s will fix a problem.
5) The “Healthcare System” is a mess. The biggest reason is the lack of consumer participation in the payment end of things. “Insurance” has been picking up the tab so long (People have bragged for years how an illness didn’t cost them more than a co-pay.) individuals believe they should not have to bear the cost of their care.
6) Education has become “Indoctrination” of citizens, not the development of critical thinkers. Teachers and Professors have long over indulged their egos and taught more opinion than fact and skill. The arm twisting by local “do-gooders” has gone national and government wide.
Elected Officials are more worried about their legacy than the true results of their actions. The balance of individual choice and responsibility is unbearably tedious.
7) The lack of simple solutions does not automatically mean the government (the citizenry of the USA) can or should collect a larger share of the productivity of the people to ease the “suffering” of the more “compassionate”. This society has lost touch with the purpose of and
essence of life. Health is more than access to a DR or procedures. Lifestyle, religion (shouldn’t have said that…), nutrition etc, all play a part. Leading a healthy life is full of many HARD daily choices.
Routine care should be paid out of pocket and the costs contained by competition and cooperatives arrangements, not government dictate.
9) Greed on the part of consumers is equally destructive as the greed currently attributed only to the insurance companies.
10) YOU can not get something for NOTHING! Only thieves get a free lunch-for awhile.
Pre-existing conditions are a side-effect of having health insurance tied to employment. Pre-existing to what? To this particular policy. And why are you trying to get a “pre-existing condition” covered by a new policy? Because you lost your job, or you are trying to change jobs. Your health did not suddenly change, your insurability did not suddenly change, your risk did not suddenly change, all that changed was your coverage. You can’t relate medical pre-existing conditions with the analogy above of the dilapidated house, because no other type of insurance coverage would you find your self in an unforeseen and unavoidable uncovered state. Insurance companies can drop coverage if your risk has changed significantly since the policy was underwritten, or more likely they will increase your premiums to account for the increased risk. Only with health insurance do your premiums get more expensive as a function of having just lost your income.
Insurance tied to employment also means that premiums are higher per-capita for small companies than they are for large companies, which has the hidden cost of being a disincentive to innovation and competition in the American economy because of the health-care-cost-related risk of going to work for a small company (or starting a small company). Years ago, I left a company with 100,000+ employees and went to work for a company with 30 employees, and my insurance premium quadrupled.
Health insurance is not innovative enough or competitive enough, because it faces such an immense jumble of regulations. If insurance was regulated at the national level, rather than the state level, insurance companies could have a much smaller staff of underwriters, actuaries, administrative workers, compliance and legal departments, marketing departments…they could realize efficiencies across the board by having one set of regulations to comply with, rather than 50. (This would be a totally appropriate application of the enumerated powers of the Federal Government spelled out in the “Commerce Clause”. Given the interstate nature of our employers, our careers and our businesses, it just doesn’t make sense to have a company with employees in 3 states required to use 3 insurance policies to provide benefits) Given a consistent set of rules to follow, competition would unleash innovation in the private sector that would deliver better service to more people at lower prices.
Your article on pre-existing conditions clearly shows you are completely out of touch with reality. I have a pre-existing condition that I’ve had since birth. It isn’t because I didn’t take care of myself; it’s the luck of the draw. Because my former employer decided after 36 years to transfer my work to Costa Rica, I lost my job and my health insurance. Now, I can’t get health insurance because of my pre-existing condition. It is completely controlled by medication, but I still can’t get insurance. You have some nerve comparing me to an old clunker on which I’m trying to get mechanical insurance. I’m NOT an old clunker. Clearly, your brain is the only old clunker in this article. Wake up, sir. One day, YOU could be in this position. I’d be interested to see what you think then!
Dear Cheri: What a GREAT letter! Write to me if you would like to talk. My address isn’t hard to find. Linda Brady Traynham
Born with a pre-existing condition…
Insurance is for UNPREDICTABLE risk. If you have a known issue with KNOWN costs, you strike a contract with a provider or secure some type of installment plan. It is not “your fault” but it is not “Mine” or
Bobby’s or Sue’s. Do you expect an insurance company to say “OK” then go find 5 or 6 people who are healthy enough to purchase but not use insurance to cover you? Or should they take the loss? I imagine they feel the same about the cost of your care as you do. Insurance destroys the connection between servicer and payee.
That said, I am not indifferent or unfamiliar with individual suffering or complicated and burdensome health issues. There are MANY programs that help, welfare, Social security, Medicare, Public Health, Hospital & Doctors write offs, etc. As well as non-profit and community health organizations.
“Cheap” Healthcare will have the same effect as “Cheap” oil and energy. Healthcare reform is needed. Delivery of care needs to be remodeled. The majority of People ideally shouldn’t need insurance for minor/everyday maladies, colds, flu, rashes etc and the subsequent prescriptions. Healthcare savings accounts would help with that.
While I want the best care for myself and my family, I am not comfortable telling others they have to except less or lower-quality to accommodate me. One size does not fit all. I have worked in Healthcare for 25
years, the government adds complexity. It sounds good to say Federalizing would “reduce redundancies”
simplify, etc. That is just NOT true. Federalizing will involve government jobs, unionized workers and taxpayer supported/guaranteed pensions as opposed to “saved and invested” pensions. That model is UNSUSTAINABLE.
I teach my children if you can’t work up the nerve to go ask your neighbor for it, don’t vote for the tax man to take it and give it to you.~C
I think most of you totally miss the point. Many people who are denied insurance because of a pre-existing condition, did not wait until they got sick and then went out and tried to find someone to pay for them. One of two things happened. Either they had insurance and either they or someone in their family got sick and the insurance company dropped them because they were costing them too much money. Or they lost their job, either because of the illness itself or cutbacks at the company and then no other company would pick them up because of the illness. Most people have no idea what it really mean to be sick in this country. If people in this country would quit worrying about how they were going to afford their next Lexus or if they were doing better then the Jones they would see that there is plenty of wealth in this country to take care of our fellow human beings. I am appalled that so many people in this country call themselves Christians but they don’t want to help any one out EVER! Abortion is BAD, but don’t expect me to help out once that baby is born. Human life is the most important issue, but don’t expect me to actually sacrifice any of my ‘hard’ earned money to make sure everyone is cared for. These are the messages I am hearing everyday from so called Christians. I am continually disappointed by my fellow country men and women!
I understand the desire for the insurance company to make a profit. It is what they are in business to do. I can also understand why they would be disinclined to grant a policy to a guaranteed loser for the company. This doesn’t mean that I like their policies – just that I understand them.
The purpose of insurance is to spread the risk. The insurance companies are currently reducing their risks so that they can minimize premiums and maximize their profits. The big problem with this is that people that had no insurance when they were diagnosed with something expensive to treat are just plain SOL. Same for people that had a condition and then lost their jobs and can’t get new insurance. Or people that just plain can’t afford their insurance any more because they have a condition and can’t change their insurance, but their premiums are prohibitively expensive because all the healthy people left their “insurance pool”. I feel bad for these people. They may want coverage and they may be willing to pay for coverage, but they either can’t get it or can’t afford it. Something needs to be done.
I don’t know that I’m for a national plan, but I am for insurance companies having to insure absolutely anyone that applies. I’m also for the insurance company having one giant insurance pool for the whole company so that the risk is spread evenly amongst all policy holders, not just the policy holders from Illinois that bought their policies on June 3rd, etc. Sure young healthy people won’t like the extra premiums to cover some of the expense created by older unhealthy people, but the whole point of insurance is to spread the risk exposure, and they just aren’t doing it. .Excess risk should be spread among all insurance companies by selling each other insurance. Make insurance companies do what insurance is supposed to do – spread the risk.
Don,
You and all your responders are wrong. Companies do not exist simply to make a profit. Yeah, that what everyone thinks and is taught, but it is wrong. You do not simply
You are a cold hearted, nihilistic, materialist, and a fool, to boot. People need food, clothing, shelter, nurturing and love to thrive. The game is not just survival and if you think it is then you are simply an animal. Focusing on profits does not create a society or culture or nation that grows itself, matures, and enables individuals to live into their potential. It is sophomoric to think that corporations and free enterprise exist only to make profit. That is a one-dimensional view of a three dimensional reality. We, the people of this democracy, are completely entitled and empowerd to force economic entities to live up to their responsibilities and own the consequences of their actions – both individuals and corporations. Your narrow minded definitions notwithstanding. To me, that means insurance companies should be compelled to offer insurance to all individuals and all individuals should be compelled to contribute to the common good. That means taxes. Too bad if you don’t like it. Move to some other cold hearted country.
Joe, your latest comment impressed me so much I’m going to write an article about it. Have you the least idea what an actuary does? You might say that he’s a bookie for insurance company. Instead of handicapping horses, he works out bets which benefit his employer for health, automobile, and home insurance. It is not possible to legislate that insurance companies take losing bets; they won’t do it. Will you then legislate that they MUST stay in business until they have gone bankrupt? Or even after?
Statist thugs are all the same, eager to use compulsion to force others to do as they wish, or dream, or benefit from…and you know you don’t think ALL individuals should be compelled to contribute to the “common good,” a concept I doubt you can define. Your tired old socialism is based on the truth that some few cannot take care of themselves and a lot more could but don’t because you are there to hand over stolen goods. What are you going to compel the person who needs you to hold a gun on me to provide him “free” medical care to give? What has he got?
Reality adds that those in power (such as leftist millionaires in Congress) don’t pay taxes, and that those of us who work, think, save, defer gratification, and don’t seek to pick the pockets of others neither want nor need you.
You said one very true thing: this is a very cold-hearted country. It holds that my property is not mine, my labor is not mine, and I have no “rights” save those it and others like you grant me grudgingly. These days it seems as though my only “right” is to be your un-fed milk cow. Cows dry up, you know. Your world holds that I am natural resource to be controlled or mined. I quit. I don’t produce more than I need any more. You can go figure out who to rob next.
Rancher Lady, I am with you!
All day yesterday I was having those same thoughts:
“…and that those of us who work, think, save, defer gratification, and don’t seek to pick the pockets of others neither want nor need you.
You said one very true thing: this is a very cold-hearted country. It holds that my property is not mine, my labor is not mine, and I have no “rights” save those it and others like you grant me grudgingly. These days it seems as though my only “right” is to be your un-fed milk cow. Cows dry up, you know. Your world holds that I am natural resource to be controlled or mined. I quit. I don’t produce more than I need any more. You can go figure out who to rob next.”
RIGHT ON!
The “un-fed milk cow” analogy is great! I am tired of being called “Cold” or “Uncharitable”. Charity starts at home. In my earlier post I eluded to the lack of compassion in hand-outs. Encouraging people to be truly independent is as compassionate as you can get! When I was young I didn’t get that. When my seniors/superiors would push back and force me to “mature” (Make informed long-term responsibility accepting decisions) I didn’t like it, I thought them “mean”. Bless them!
Joe, DaveB, gimmeabreak….
Anyone thinking a National Healthcare Insurance Plan will help/fix the current issues and doesn’t recognize the REAL effects of such a plan really doesn’t have a clue. No disrespect intended. I agree we need the GREED out of healthcare and that goes for those wanting the most for nothing!
Anyone not noticing the puppet strings being strung by the government in the US economy is BLIND! This game is over as we have known it. Stopped being blinded by your jealousy and self-pity. PERSONAL FREEDOM, and LIBERTY are the price for the current administration’s policies. That is not alarmist. There is no underlying economy capable of carrying the load being placed on it. Those who think a “leveling” is due are some of the most “cold-hearted” people on the planet. Scrutinize your own motivations, I am not buying the compassion!~C
Rancher Lady, I am with you!
All day yesterday I was having those same thoughts:
“…and that those of us who work, think, save, defer gratification, and don’t seek to pick the pockets of others neither want nor need you.
You said one very true thing: this is a very cold-hearted country. It holds that my property is not mine, my labor is not mine, and I have no “rights” save those it and others like you grant me grudgingly. These days it seems as though my only “right” is to be your un-fed milk cow. Cows dry up, you know. Your world holds that I am natural resource to be controlled or mined. I quit. I don’t produce more than I need any more. You can go figure out who to rob next.”
The “un-fed milk cow” analogy is great! I am tired of being called “Cold” or “Uncharitable”. Charity starts at home. In my earlier post I eluded to the lack of compassion in hand-outs. Encouraging people to be truly independent is as compassionate as you can get! When I was young I didn’t get that. When my seniors/superiors would push back and force me to “mature” (Make informed long-term responsibility accepting decisions) I didn’t like it, I thought them “mean”. Bless them!
Joe, DaveB, gimmeabreak….
Anyone thinking a National Healthcare Insurance Plan will help/fix the current issues and doesn’t recognize the REAL effects of such a plan really doesn’t have a clue. I agree we need the GREED out of healthcare and that goes for those wanting the most for nothing!
Anyone not noticing the puppet strings being strung by the government in the US economy is BLIND! This game is over as we have known it. Stopped being blinded by your jealousy and self-pity. PERSONAL FREEDOM, and LIBERTY are the price for the current administration’s policies. That is not alarmist. There is no underlying economy capable of carrying the load being placed on it. Those who think a “leveling” is due are some of the most “cold-hearted” people on the planet. Scrutinize your own motivations, I am not buying the compassion!~C
Rancher Lady, I am with you!
All day yesterday I was having those same thoughts:
“…and that those of us who work, think, save, defer gratification, and don’t seek to pick the pockets of others neither want nor need you.
You said one very true thing: this is a very cold-hearted country. It holds that my property is not mine, my labor is not mine, and I have no “rights” save those it and others like you grant me grudgingly. These days it seems as though my only “right” is to be your un-fed milk cow. Cows dry up, you know. Your world holds that I am natural resource to be controlled or mined. I quit. I don’t produce more than I need any more. You can go figure out who to rob next.”
Right on!
The “un-fed milk cow” analogy is great! I am tired of being called “Cold” or “Uncharitable”. Charity starts at home. In my earlier post I eluded to the lack of compassion in hand-outs. Encouraging people to be truly independent is as compassionate as you can get! When I was young I didn’t get that. When my seniors/superiors would push back and force me to “mature” (Make researched, long-term, responsibility accepting decisions) I didn’t like it, I thought them “mean”. Bless them!
Joe, DaveB, gimmeabreak….
Anyone thinking a National Healthcare Insurance Plan will help/fix the current issues and doesn’t recognize the REAL effects of such a plan really doesn’t have a clue. I agree we need the GREED out of healthcare and that goes for those wanting the most for nothing! Hiding behind the Needy and unfortunate is cowardly. The abundance created by our free market/capitalist system is what allows you to believe you can allocate others money to fit your view. We already take care of the needy.
Anyone not noticing the puppet strings being strung by the Federal Government in the US economy is BLIND! This game is over as we have known it. Stopped being blinded by your jealousy and self-pity. PERSONAL FREEDOM, and LIBERTY are the price for the current administration’s policies. That is not alarmist. There is no underlying economy capable of carrying the load being placed on it. Those who think a “leveling” is due are some of the most “cold-hearted” people on the planet. Scrutinize your own motivations, I am not buying the compassion!~C
A pre-existing condition should not be the basis to deny insurance, it should be the basis to deny coverage of that pre-existing condition. If someone had cancer, was cured, is well beyond a period of remission should not be denied coverage for a subsequent bout of cancer. They certainly should not be denied coverage for a broken arm or a broken leg. I wrestle with the concept of pre-existing condition being the same a continuing condition; someone needs to define these terms in a better manner. If someone wants to cover against the return of a problem, let them, let their insurance premiums reflect that just as a driver’s car insurance premiums reflect the driver’s good or bad history.
People from other countries that have universal health care laugh at Americans and their ‘pre-existing condition’ nonsense. That phrase is used precisely because it is so wonderfully vague and can be used to justify almost any denial of care. The fee for service model just doesn’t work when it comes to health care, no matter how hard you try to shoe horn health care into some economic theory. Entering into a obligation when you are sick breaks a basic tenant of capitalism, that for capitalism to work customers do not necessarily have to buy your product and, if dissatisfied, can take their business elsewhere. When you are ill you are not in a position to comparison shop or take your business elsewhere, therefore capitalism can’t apply and the supply/demand curve no longer is in effect. Imagine negotiating a price with the fire chief to come put out your house fire while its actually burning to the ground and you begin to see the illogic of applying capitalist principles to health care costs. What are the productivity costs of a sick country? No other country in the G7 has their system structured such that its in many powerful people’s financial interest for you to get and stay sick.
I’m all about LBT’s and others’ stance on this.
Here’s a solution: Those born with chronic conditions not brought on by any of their own life choices, it sucks but you are now required to fund your regular, daily care from your own pocket without insurance options because that coverage is for “catastropic” and “unpredictable” costs only. This may not be fair based on our man-made definition of that word, but it’s a simple reality of capitalism and the free market. As a result of this, because you were born with this chronic condition or received a diagnosis at age 5 through not fault of your own, you are now practically banned from EVER owning a home, paying rent in an apartment, having your own children because they themselves might have a “pre-existing” condition based on genetic faults you’ve passed on… All of this because you can’t afford it, since you’ll not have the insurance coverage to at least help offset some of those costs. You lose your ability to go after life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness… No longer is it guaranteed to you, because it’s prohibited by the free market and capitalism.
How’s that for a society? What was that, Hitler? Didn’t hear you.
Don,
If you ever had any compassion or humanity, you just relegated any traces of it to the dust bin.
OC.