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	<title>Comments on: Road Trip Through Montgomery: The Collapse of Consumerism and Suburbia</title>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/road-trip-through-montgomery-the-collapse-of-consumerism-and-suburbia/comment-page-1/#comment-922</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 15:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=3513#comment-922</guid>
		<description>Well, to give the argument its due, I confess I&#039;m not familiar with regulations that make walkable design illegal. This is possibly due to the fact that I live in an inner-ring suburb of Cleveland that is at least adequately walkable as it stands. It&#039;s got sidewalks, anyway. :-) Before that, I lived in Cleveland proper, which also would be walkable, if anyone could be bothered to &lt;i&gt;shovel&lt;/i&gt; the sidewalks after we get a foot of fresh global warming, but that&#039;s another story.

To get back to the point, I wouldn&#039;t blame a community that chose -- on a local basis -- to ignore such regulations. I&#039;m gonna take a wild stab and say that we&#039;re talking about zoning peculiarities, subdivisions with three- or five-acre minimum lot sizes, and the like. I don&#039;t have &lt;i&gt;The Geography of Nowhere,&lt;/i&gt; but there&#039;s a library copy of &lt;i&gt;The Long Emergency&lt;/i&gt; at home. I&#039;ll see whether Mr. Kunstler addresses the question there. Be a lot easier to work with if he&#039;d provide a reference list, the way Crichton (may he rest in peace) did.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, to give the argument its due, I confess I&#8217;m not familiar with regulations that make walkable design illegal. This is possibly due to the fact that I live in an inner-ring suburb of Cleveland that is at least adequately walkable as it stands. It&#8217;s got sidewalks, anyway. <img src='http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  Before that, I lived in Cleveland proper, which also would be walkable, if anyone could be bothered to <i>shovel</i> the sidewalks after we get a foot of fresh global warming, but that&#8217;s another story.</p>
<p>To get back to the point, I wouldn&#8217;t blame a community that chose &#8212; on a local basis &#8212; to ignore such regulations. I&#8217;m gonna take a wild stab and say that we&#8217;re talking about zoning peculiarities, subdivisions with three- or five-acre minimum lot sizes, and the like. I don&#8217;t have <i>The Geography of Nowhere,</i> but there&#8217;s a library copy of <i>The Long Emergency</i> at home. I&#8217;ll see whether Mr. Kunstler addresses the question there. Be a lot easier to work with if he&#8217;d provide a reference list, the way Crichton (may he rest in peace) did.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Gibson</title>
		<link>http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/road-trip-through-montgomery-the-collapse-of-consumerism-and-suburbia/comment-page-1/#comment-920</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Gibson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 14:23:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=3513#comment-920</guid>
		<description>Kunstler also repeatedly points out that communities will simply ignore the body of regulation that currently makes traditional, walkable design illegal. If that isn&#039;t the market at work, I don&#039;t know what is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kunstler also repeatedly points out that communities will simply ignore the body of regulation that currently makes traditional, walkable design illegal. If that isn&#8217;t the market at work, I don&#8217;t know what is.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/road-trip-through-montgomery-the-collapse-of-consumerism-and-suburbia/comment-page-1/#comment-913</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 22:20:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=3513#comment-913</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s fine, Gary. If oil really does become scarce, the market ought to drive community design. But Kunstler explicitly called upon President Obama to invoke the power of the Almighty State to make manifest the New Urbanist dream. If &lt;i&gt;that&lt;/i&gt; isn&#039;t a rent-seeker&#039;s wet dream, I don&#039;t know what is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s fine, Gary. If oil really does become scarce, the market ought to drive community design. But Kunstler explicitly called upon President Obama to invoke the power of the Almighty State to make manifest the New Urbanist dream. If <i>that</i> isn&#8217;t a rent-seeker&#8217;s wet dream, I don&#8217;t know what is.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Gibson</title>
		<link>http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/road-trip-through-montgomery-the-collapse-of-consumerism-and-suburbia/comment-page-1/#comment-909</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Gibson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 16:37:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=3513#comment-909</guid>
		<description>New Urbanist development is expensive because of market forces. People want it and it&#039;s in limited supply. The New Urbanist don&#039;t &quot;want&quot; it to be expensive; they want more of it and for it to become the norm.

Remember, what they are designing is nothing really new. It&#039;s how human beings learned to design communities before everyone was expected to drive everywhere to everything, everytime.

Mr. Kunstler is also a proponent of nuclear energy...at least last I checked. He has no illusions about the fact that nuclear is the only way to pull our fat out of the fryer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>New Urbanist development is expensive because of market forces. People want it and it&#8217;s in limited supply. The New Urbanist don&#8217;t &#8220;want&#8221; it to be expensive; they want more of it and for it to become the norm.</p>
<p>Remember, what they are designing is nothing really new. It&#8217;s how human beings learned to design communities before everyone was expected to drive everywhere to everything, everytime.</p>
<p>Mr. Kunstler is also a proponent of nuclear energy&#8230;at least last I checked. He has no illusions about the fact that nuclear is the only way to pull our fat out of the fryer.</p>
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		<title>By: w simmons</title>
		<link>http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/road-trip-through-montgomery-the-collapse-of-consumerism-and-suburbia/comment-page-1/#comment-908</link>
		<dc:creator>w simmons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 15:37:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=3513#comment-908</guid>
		<description>Remaking our society based on scarcity of energy resources is a losers game.  Advanced nuclear energy can last, yes, forever, at 1000 times the energy usage rate we have now.  Mr. Kunstler, your peak oil anxiety fails to account for human ingenuity. Hold off on completely redesigning my world.  I like malls, cars and suburbs just fine, thank you, and so do most Americans.  Seaside is expensively nice, but Montgomery, while maybe less aesthetically pleasing, gets lots of people well-fed and adequately housed where 100 years ago they were living in shacks eating a inadequate diet.  Progress can and should be prettier and more energy efficient(keep working on that please), but don&#039;t sneer at Montgomery for making the best of a difficult situation.  New Urbanism: how ironic with its million dollar condos , how elitist with its expensive Priuses, how intellectually bankrupt with its main premise based on energy scarcity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Remaking our society based on scarcity of energy resources is a losers game.  Advanced nuclear energy can last, yes, forever, at 1000 times the energy usage rate we have now.  Mr. Kunstler, your peak oil anxiety fails to account for human ingenuity. Hold off on completely redesigning my world.  I like malls, cars and suburbs just fine, thank you, and so do most Americans.  Seaside is expensively nice, but Montgomery, while maybe less aesthetically pleasing, gets lots of people well-fed and adequately housed where 100 years ago they were living in shacks eating a inadequate diet.  Progress can and should be prettier and more energy efficient(keep working on that please), but don&#8217;t sneer at Montgomery for making the best of a difficult situation.  New Urbanism: how ironic with its million dollar condos , how elitist with its expensive Priuses, how intellectually bankrupt with its main premise based on energy scarcity.</p>
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		<title>By: Adams Hudson</title>
		<link>http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/road-trip-through-montgomery-the-collapse-of-consumerism-and-suburbia/comment-page-1/#comment-855</link>
		<dc:creator>Adams Hudson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 17:48:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=3513#comment-855</guid>
		<description>Were you so caught up in prose that you couldn&#039;t tell those &quot;creepy depictions of slavery&quot; were actually done by a single artist of mostly Christian themes? The artist did this, free of charge, to decorate the &#039;decay&#039;, which has in the last 5 years has mightily improved. Such as…

Eleven million invested to restore a 1920&#039;s warehouse into a minor league stadium (crowds have increased each year); another $10m or so into the old Greystone hotel for the first new hotel in 14 years; another $30m into one across the street that didn&#039;t want to miss out on the party which included doubling the size of the Civic Center, adding a performing arts center which we&#039;d NEVER had previously. (Notice it didn&#039;t migrate to &quot;mall fringe&quot; either.) 

Plus, an alleyway was opened - leaving historical buildings intact - to draw tourists through and into formerly-decayed structures, now restored, housing a Learning Center (open date May 09) a restaurant (4,000 square feet of nastiness, now restored under &quot;SmartCode&quot; measures for preservation and utility) and offices. Wonder if you caught a glimpse of the 3 story former Montgomery Fair building, (where Rosa Parks worked), that now holds 19 loft apartments, all filled before restoration was completed just 60 days ago. 

Sorry if downtown Montgomery wasn&#039;t impressive enough for you, but to those of us who live, work, and invest here, we&#039;re encouraged.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Were you so caught up in prose that you couldn&#8217;t tell those &#8220;creepy depictions of slavery&#8221; were actually done by a single artist of mostly Christian themes? The artist did this, free of charge, to decorate the &#8216;decay&#8217;, which has in the last 5 years has mightily improved. Such as…</p>
<p>Eleven million invested to restore a 1920&#8217;s warehouse into a minor league stadium (crowds have increased each year); another $10m or so into the old Greystone hotel for the first new hotel in 14 years; another $30m into one across the street that didn&#8217;t want to miss out on the party which included doubling the size of the Civic Center, adding a performing arts center which we&#8217;d NEVER had previously. (Notice it didn&#8217;t migrate to &#8220;mall fringe&#8221; either.) </p>
<p>Plus, an alleyway was opened &#8211; leaving historical buildings intact &#8211; to draw tourists through and into formerly-decayed structures, now restored, housing a Learning Center (open date May 09) a restaurant (4,000 square feet of nastiness, now restored under &#8220;SmartCode&#8221; measures for preservation and utility) and offices. Wonder if you caught a glimpse of the 3 story former Montgomery Fair building, (where Rosa Parks worked), that now holds 19 loft apartments, all filled before restoration was completed just 60 days ago. </p>
<p>Sorry if downtown Montgomery wasn&#8217;t impressive enough for you, but to those of us who live, work, and invest here, we&#8217;re encouraged.</p>
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		<title>By: dunnage</title>
		<link>http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/road-trip-through-montgomery-the-collapse-of-consumerism-and-suburbia/comment-page-1/#comment-851</link>
		<dc:creator>dunnage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 04:53:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=3513#comment-851</guid>
		<description>Spent most of my lifie in towns of a few thousand.  Now wherever there is good crop land you have corporate farming.  The family farmer is mostly a thing of the past.  Now you take marginal land and moderate climate and sure you have rural.  Cities and suburbs made official with two events:

1.  Eisenhower and the Interstate Highway System:  Great for trucks.  Actually, the system isolated most of the land area of the U.S. .  No proximity to Interstate and ... remember all those westerns about where the train tracks went?  Literally, the same.  God, how many towns stole the county records and declared themselves the county seat -- even into the 60&#039;s.  Result = Cities and Interstate.  You want to husband the sod, Suburbs.

2.  Reagan announcing thath the U.S. was now a Sevice Economy and going to stay that way.  The Ultimate Supply Side -- and the overlords pulled it off.  At the top you can have anything, but earn a good wage and your overpaid.  I&#039;m serious.  So what you gonna do?  Hang around cause credit was your pay and the top&#039;s tool.  Nobody did anything.  Military gets a half trillion no matter what, and yet we won&#039;t keep up the school buildings.  Actually we don&#039;t even like &quot;public&quot; schools ( Inner City and rural aren&#039;t they ).  And the teachers are alright but for their Union which has destroyed the system as the UAW has the auto manufacturers.  You know in the 50&#039;s you could send your kids to a state university with a union construction job or a south side steel plan job.  Now you both work and it adds up to less. 

Now we have President Obama and he has apparently agreed to do things Wall Street&#039;s Way.  And so between Walstreet, the Public, the Congress we&#039;ll have a Wall Street short of $ -- probably just as well, cause it is possible these Investment &quot;Institutions&quot; are too big to bail.  Bleak, interesting, wish so many wouldn&#039;t end up getting hurt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spent most of my lifie in towns of a few thousand.  Now wherever there is good crop land you have corporate farming.  The family farmer is mostly a thing of the past.  Now you take marginal land and moderate climate and sure you have rural.  Cities and suburbs made official with two events:</p>
<p>1.  Eisenhower and the Interstate Highway System:  Great for trucks.  Actually, the system isolated most of the land area of the U.S. .  No proximity to Interstate and &#8230; remember all those westerns about where the train tracks went?  Literally, the same.  God, how many towns stole the county records and declared themselves the county seat &#8212; even into the 60&#8217;s.  Result = Cities and Interstate.  You want to husband the sod, Suburbs.</p>
<p>2.  Reagan announcing thath the U.S. was now a Sevice Economy and going to stay that way.  The Ultimate Supply Side &#8212; and the overlords pulled it off.  At the top you can have anything, but earn a good wage and your overpaid.  I&#8217;m serious.  So what you gonna do?  Hang around cause credit was your pay and the top&#8217;s tool.  Nobody did anything.  Military gets a half trillion no matter what, and yet we won&#8217;t keep up the school buildings.  Actually we don&#8217;t even like &#8220;public&#8221; schools ( Inner City and rural aren&#8217;t they ).  And the teachers are alright but for their Union which has destroyed the system as the UAW has the auto manufacturers.  You know in the 50&#8217;s you could send your kids to a state university with a union construction job or a south side steel plan job.  Now you both work and it adds up to less. </p>
<p>Now we have President Obama and he has apparently agreed to do things Wall Street&#8217;s Way.  And so between Walstreet, the Public, the Congress we&#8217;ll have a Wall Street short of $ &#8212; probably just as well, cause it is possible these Investment &#8220;Institutions&#8221; are too big to bail.  Bleak, interesting, wish so many wouldn&#8217;t end up getting hurt.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Gibson</title>
		<link>http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/road-trip-through-montgomery-the-collapse-of-consumerism-and-suburbia/comment-page-1/#comment-846</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Gibson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 19:51:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=3513#comment-846</guid>
		<description>Heh heh. &quot;Overfed clowns&quot;...one of my favorites...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh heh. &#8220;Overfed clowns&#8221;&#8230;one of my favorites&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Fischer</title>
		<link>http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/road-trip-through-montgomery-the-collapse-of-consumerism-and-suburbia/comment-page-1/#comment-845</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Fischer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 18:52:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=3513#comment-845</guid>
		<description>Mr Kunstler, you have a great talent for portraying dystopia in the written word.  Keep up the good work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr Kunstler, you have a great talent for portraying dystopia in the written word.  Keep up the good work.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/road-trip-through-montgomery-the-collapse-of-consumerism-and-suburbia/comment-page-1/#comment-844</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 18:21:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=3513#comment-844</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The New Urbanists have gathered, organized, and codified all the principle and methodology needed to carry out this campaign.&lt;/i&gt;

Oh, I&#039;ll bet they have. Got a solution that doesn&#039;t involve anointed philosopher-kings deciding for the rest of us... &quot;overfed clowns,&quot; I believe was the term Kunstler used?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The New Urbanists have gathered, organized, and codified all the principle and methodology needed to carry out this campaign.</i></p>
<p>Oh, I&#8217;ll bet they have. Got a solution that doesn&#8217;t involve anointed philosopher-kings deciding for the rest of us&#8230; &#8220;overfed clowns,&#8221; I believe was the term Kunstler used?</p>
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