Comments on: The Life and Wars of General Curtis Lemay, Part IV: Vietnam and President Johnson http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/the-life-and-wars-of-general-curtis-lemay-part-iv-vietnam-and-president-johnson/ Whiskey and Gunpowder features articles on gold, oil, currencies, emerging markets, energy, and more. Sat, 26 May 2012 17:28:01 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Rich R. http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/the-life-and-wars-of-general-curtis-lemay-part-iv-vietnam-and-president-johnson/comment-page-1/#comment-7856 Rich R. Sun, 11 Jul 2010 18:43:47 +0000 http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=5524#comment-7856 Mr. King, Thought you'd enjoy knowing that you, your article and LaMay came up in a battle I had with a blogger friend. I recently finished the new biography of LeMay and found it fascinating. How can we know MacArther and Patton but not LeMay? Thanks for your great article. Rich R. http://ehlersoneverything.blogspot.com/2010/06/presidential-moment-foreign-policy.html#comments Mr. King,

Thought you’d enjoy knowing that you, your article and LaMay came up in a battle I had with a blogger friend.

I recently finished the new biography of LeMay and found it fascinating. How can we know MacArther and Patton but not LeMay?

Thanks for your great article.

Rich R.
http://ehlersoneverything.blog.....l#comments

]]> By: The Life and Wars of General Curtis Lemay, Part V: Vietnam, Wallace and Nuclear War http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/the-life-and-wars-of-general-curtis-lemay-part-iv-vietnam-and-president-johnson/comment-page-1/#comment-3977 The Life and Wars of General Curtis Lemay, Part V: Vietnam, Wallace and Nuclear War Mon, 02 Nov 2009 14:49:11 +0000 http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=5524#comment-3977 [...] In the last article, about Lemay and what he told President Lyndon Johnson, we left the general as he retired from the Air Force in 1965 and moved to the tony Bel Aire section of Los Angeles. Lemay took a good job with a fine technology firm. He and Mrs. Lemay settled in, and — it being Los Angeles in the mid-1960s — life was good. [...] [...] In the last article, about Lemay and what he told President Lyndon Johnson, we left the general as he retired from the Air Force in 1965 and moved to the tony Bel Aire section of Los Angeles. Lemay took a good job with a fine technology firm. He and Mrs. Lemay settled in, and — it being Los Angeles in the mid-1960s — life was good. [...]

]]> By: ernie smith http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/the-life-and-wars-of-general-curtis-lemay-part-iv-vietnam-and-president-johnson/comment-page-1/#comment-3840 ernie smith Fri, 16 Oct 2009 20:38:14 +0000 http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=5524#comment-3840 Johnson didn't cut the head off the serpent because he couldn't really make one out. Didn't seem like anyone could. And I don't like Johnson. Apparently Lemay did. (I'm not familiar with him.) Lemay's strategy was right of course (common sense). "Cut the head off Goliath and the Philistines flee." Our real predicament - If we didn't feel so guilty due to the depths of moral depravity we've sunk to in America, we might be able to see a little clearer who indeed to go kill, if anybody, while enjoying God's providential protection here at home meantime against whatever enemies we finite humans can't ascertain. How did tiny Israel humiliate the combined hostile forces of the Arab world? They were providentially helped. What did Reformation England (the most God-fearing period of their history) do to defeat the Spanish Armada? Nothing. They were providentially spared. Dripping in paganism and unbelievably immoral fiscal irresponsibility, we've got nothing. "The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion." Johnson didn’t cut the head off the serpent because he couldn’t really make one out. Didn’t seem like anyone could. And I don’t like Johnson. Apparently Lemay did. (I’m not familiar with him.) Lemay’s strategy was right of course (common sense). “Cut the head off Goliath and the Philistines flee.”

Our real predicament – If we didn’t feel so guilty due to the depths of moral depravity we’ve sunk to in America, we might be able to see a little clearer who indeed to go kill, if anybody, while enjoying God’s providential protection here at home meantime against whatever enemies we finite humans can’t ascertain.

How did tiny Israel humiliate the combined hostile forces of the Arab world? They were providentially helped. What did Reformation England (the most God-fearing period of their history) do to defeat the Spanish Armada? Nothing. They were providentially spared. Dripping in paganism and unbelievably immoral fiscal irresponsibility, we’ve got nothing. “The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.”

]]> By: Oliver K. Burrows III http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/the-life-and-wars-of-general-curtis-lemay-part-iv-vietnam-and-president-johnson/comment-page-1/#comment-3820 Oliver K. Burrows III Wed, 14 Oct 2009 15:06:38 +0000 http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=5524#comment-3820 This article, along with the previous three, provide an excellent primer on the life and career of General Lemay. While there are differing views of the success of the strategic bombing campaigns in both Korea and Vietnam, there is no doubt that the general's advice to President Johnson was consistent with a sound military analysis of the situation. There are also sad parallels between the careers of General MacArthur and General Lemay, although the two men's characters and conduct were remarkably different. The tone and content of the first four parts of this series remind us of the interaction between political considerations and the conduct of military operations as well as the economics of peace and war. I look forward to Byron's last part of the series. This article, along with the previous three, provide an excellent primer on the life and career of General Lemay. While there are differing views of the success of the strategic bombing campaigns in both Korea and Vietnam, there is no doubt that the general’s advice to President Johnson was consistent with a sound military analysis of the situation. There are also sad parallels between the careers of General MacArthur and General Lemay, although the two men’s characters and conduct were remarkably different.

The tone and content of the first four parts of this series remind us of the interaction between political considerations and the conduct of military operations as well as the economics of peace and war. I look forward to Byron’s last part of the series.

]]> By: Ладушки.Net » Blog Archive » Posts about Russia as of 13/10/2009 http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/the-life-and-wars-of-general-curtis-lemay-part-iv-vietnam-and-president-johnson/comment-page-1/#comment-3813 Ладушки.Net » Blog Archive » Posts about Russia as of 13/10/2009 Tue, 13 Oct 2009 17:46:26 +0000 http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=5524#comment-3813 [...] Marcus likened the award to Pee-Wee Soccer, where every child gets a trophy just for playing. The Life and Wars of General Curtis Lemay, Part IV: Vietnam and President Johnson - whiskeyandgunpowder.com 10/12/2009 From what deep wells of events flow the rivers of our time? By [...] [...] Marcus likened the award to Pee-Wee Soccer, where every child gets a trophy just for playing. The Life and Wars of General Curtis Lemay, Part IV: Vietnam and President Johnson – whiskeyandgunpowder.com 10/12/2009 From what deep wells of events flow the rivers of our time? By [...]

]]> By: Phil Bronner http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/the-life-and-wars-of-general-curtis-lemay-part-iv-vietnam-and-president-johnson/comment-page-1/#comment-3805 Phil Bronner Tue, 13 Oct 2009 05:24:38 +0000 http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=5524#comment-3805 Hi Byron ...I'm enjoying your series on Curtis Lemay, thanks for the inspiration. Phil Bronner Hi Byron …I’m enjoying your series on Curtis Lemay, thanks for the inspiration.

Phil Bronner

]]> By: INOV8TN http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/the-life-and-wars-of-general-curtis-lemay-part-iv-vietnam-and-president-johnson/comment-page-1/#comment-3804 INOV8TN Tue, 13 Oct 2009 03:11:17 +0000 http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=5524#comment-3804 Thanks Byron - I've enjoyed reading each installment and I look forward to reading your next one. Too bad Lemay didn't take the initiative and 'jump ship' and campaign with Goldwater. That might have changed a lot of history. Our military -industrial complex plays a very important role in our country both internally and externally. Fortunately it's ultimately directed by civilians. Thanks Byron – I’ve enjoyed reading each installment and I look forward to reading your next one. Too bad Lemay didn’t take the initiative and ‘jump ship’ and campaign with Goldwater. That might have changed a lot of history. Our military -industrial complex plays a very important role in our country both internally and externally. Fortunately it’s ultimately directed by civilians.

]]> By: Capt. Don I Phillips USAF RET http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/the-life-and-wars-of-general-curtis-lemay-part-iv-vietnam-and-president-johnson/comment-page-1/#comment-3802 Capt. Don I Phillips USAF RET Mon, 12 Oct 2009 21:15:23 +0000 http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=5524#comment-3802 As I've said, I knew Iron Pants well and hated when he kept my nose to the grindwheel as an Alert B-52 Nav Bomb. BUT! I loved what he did for me as a honorable individual and patriot. Got to serve for a very brief time as his Aide for A Day and carried the cigars proudly. Then off to B-57 dive bombers attacking night North Ho Chi Trail with 2, 250 pound fragmentation bombs a mama san swept up next sunrise. Insanity prevailed under Lyndon B and Robert Strange. Don I Phillips, Capt USAF, Ret As I’ve said, I knew Iron Pants well and hated when he kept my nose to the grindwheel as an Alert B-52 Nav Bomb. BUT! I loved what he did for me as a honorable individual and patriot. Got to serve for a very brief time as his Aide for A Day and carried the cigars proudly. Then off to B-57 dive bombers attacking night North Ho Chi Trail with 2, 250 pound fragmentation bombs a mama san swept up next sunrise. Insanity prevailed under Lyndon B and Robert Strange. Don I Phillips, Capt USAF, Ret

]]> By: Bob Norsen,LtColUSAFRet. http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/the-life-and-wars-of-general-curtis-lemay-part-iv-vietnam-and-president-johnson/comment-page-1/#comment-3799 Bob Norsen,LtColUSAFRet. Mon, 12 Oct 2009 20:04:00 +0000 http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=5524#comment-3799 As a newly rated B17 Pilot we were being flown to a B-24 outfit, the 44th BGH, from Florida to Barksdale La. The Pilot of our ride to the 44th was Lt Col Curtis Le May ! As he was approaching the landing, the passengers, 10 new B-17 pilots, we walked fore and aft together just to give him a hard time. Kinda a prank. As I watched Col Lemay sweat and wrestle with the heavy controls on the B-24, I wondered how in the hell I was going to manage this, then the world's bigggest bomber. It turneed out that the B-24 was really very easy to fly. It was just a bit slow to respond. Forcing it to respond fast was what Col Lemay was sweating about. He was asking fighter plane response from a heavy bomber. At the time I was a 1st Lt, rated B-17 Pilot. The transition to B-24 was eventful but an easy 20 minutes. Later flying WW2 in the 44th bomb group, ETO was not so easy. We lost over 2/3 the wonderful group of guys that flew the Atlantic the night of Oct 4, 1942. Of 270 crew who flew over, less than 90 got to fly back. Almost all have passed on now. Col LeMay went on to lead the greatest air power possile ever. Todays air power is many times as powerful. Between guided missiles that are 50 times more effective and the potential of nuclear force we hold a club "too big to use". Air power is probably the only force we should have used to 'convince' political groups in the middle East. By going to the ground we leveled the playing field. Not a way to win. Reading the advice Gen LeMay gave Pres Johnson, it sounds exactly like the advice being considered for Pres. Obama. The situation looks familiar with all who followed Viet Nam. How will it end? Your description of Viet Nam is, I think, not accurate. The North originally wanted the US backing to escape French retaking Viet Nam as a colony. Ho Che Min wanted to adopt the US constitution and become a democratic nation. We were blackmailed by France into (stupidly ) supporting the French. Big error. Ho went to Russia for help when we failed him. One of the big errors by our leaders this one lead to the Vietnamese war, and losing it. Winning that war would have been a bigger error. . I suspect this event has lead to much of the world at war situation since. When the USA makes such an error it can affect much of the world for a long time. Latest major error, our failure to conserve energy, build a "green technology" starting post WW2 . Will the EARTH fail human life as a result? Will climate change "sink" much of Earth? Can we change our policies in time? Is the war in process important or should we look at the more vital action needed? The conservation of EARTH itself. Bob As a newly rated B17 Pilot we were being flown to a B-24 outfit, the 44th BGH, from Florida to Barksdale La.
The Pilot of our ride to the 44th was Lt Col Curtis Le May !

As he was approaching the landing, the passengers, 10 new B-17 pilots, we walked fore and aft together just to give him a hard time. Kinda a prank. As I watched Col Lemay sweat and wrestle with the heavy
controls on the B-24, I wondered how in the hell I was going to manage this, then the world’s bigggest bomber.
It turneed out that the B-24 was really very easy to fly. It was just a bit slow to respond. Forcing it to respond fast was what Col Lemay was sweating about. He was asking fighter plane response from a heavy bomber.

At the time I was a 1st Lt, rated B-17 Pilot. The transition to B-24 was eventful but an easy 20 minutes. Later flying WW2 in the 44th bomb group, ETO was not so easy. We lost over 2/3 the wonderful group of guys that flew the Atlantic the night of Oct 4, 1942. Of 270 crew who flew over, less than 90 got to fly back. Almost all have passed on now.

Col LeMay went on to lead the greatest air power possile ever. Todays air power is many times as powerful. Between guided missiles that are 50 times more effective and the potential of nuclear force we hold a club “too big to use”. Air power is probably the only force we should have used to ‘convince’
political groups in the middle East. By going to the ground we leveled the playing field. Not a way to win.

Reading the advice Gen LeMay gave Pres Johnson, it sounds exactly like the advice being considered for
Pres. Obama. The situation looks familiar with all who followed Viet Nam. How will it end?

Your description of Viet Nam is, I think, not accurate. The North originally wanted the US backing to escape
French retaking Viet Nam as a colony. Ho Che Min wanted to adopt the US constitution and become a
democratic nation. We were blackmailed by France into (stupidly ) supporting the French. Big error. Ho went to Russia for help when we failed him. One of the big errors by our leaders this one lead to the Vietnamese war, and losing it. Winning that war would have been a bigger error.
. I suspect this event has lead to much of the world at war situation since.

When the USA makes such an error it can affect much of the world for a long time.

Latest major error, our failure to conserve energy, build a “green technology” starting post WW2 . Will the EARTH fail human life as a result? Will climate change “sink” much of Earth? Can we change our policies in time? Is the war in process important or should we look at the more vital action needed?
The conservation of EARTH itself. Bob

]]> By: Ed Howes http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/the-life-and-wars-of-general-curtis-lemay-part-iv-vietnam-and-president-johnson/comment-page-1/#comment-3797 Ed Howes Mon, 12 Oct 2009 19:31:27 +0000 http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/?p=5524#comment-3797 Thanks Byron, I have enjoyed this entire series so far. Some years back I read Sun Tse's Art of War. And I have since marveled at how ignorant those of us required to support them have been kept of these writings. Military commanders know them and their civilian bosses do not. Hence presidents and secretaries cause defeats and more death and destruction by hearing only what they want to hear. They effectively disqualify their selves as commanders in chief and secretaries of defense, yet we will never hear a military commander call for their resignations. We need a constitutional change in which the president is only commander in chief in the decision to go to war or not or to end one, along with congressional approval for starting one. No one wins a war and the U.S. seldom comes close over the past 60 years. Who would enlist in the armed services if they knew the truth of the incompetence they would serve? Thanks Byron,

I have enjoyed this entire series so far. Some years back I read Sun Tse’s Art of War. And I have since marveled at how ignorant those of us required to support them have been kept of these writings. Military commanders know them and their civilian bosses do not. Hence presidents and secretaries cause defeats and more death and destruction by hearing only what they want to hear. They effectively disqualify their selves as commanders in chief and secretaries of defense, yet we will never hear a military commander call for their resignations. We need a constitutional change in which the president is only commander in chief in the decision to go to war or not or to end one, along with congressional approval for starting one. No one wins a war and the U.S. seldom comes close over the past 60 years. Who would enlist in the armed services if they knew the truth of the incompetence they would serve?

]]>