What You Can Expect from Socialized Medicine
Those of us bellying up to the Whiskey Bar really prefer to discuss economic matters, but politics are impinging ever more heavily on the exciting pastime of making money through analysis, seeing patterns, and forecasting behavior and business trends, whether we believe in fundamentals, technical analysis, or our own private systems of runes and crystal balls. We’re in luck, today, because now is a good time for us to consider upcoming legislation likely to have profound impact on a lot of intertwined industries and the GNP.
What are predictable results of government ramming socialized medicine down our throats? We can’t stop the programs, so how can we make money from the ineluctable outcome? A few ideas spring to mind immediately:
1. Has it dawned on anyone in Washington that Socialized medicine just might have some slight effect on insurance companies? It might be time for us to consider shorting a few viciously…or is that still illegal?!
The health insurance rack…ah, business…is one of the largest in America. The law as proposed will make it illegal to have private insurance to supplement the government’s “single payer” plan. A major portion of the GDP will be destroyed in that area alone. What will happen to those who currently underwrite supplements to Medicare?
No one can prognosticate how many irrational requirements, forbidden activities, and finable offenses will come out of the final legislation, but we can certainly conclude that this shake up and shake down is going to be off the Richter Scale in terms of lost jobs and destroyed capital. When the government is the HMO there is no place for a private HMO.
2. The proposed law also makes it illegal for doctors to provide services outside of the system and it will determine what doctors and hospitals are paid. This is certain to lead to staff shortages, probably more quickly than we are anticipating.
A. How many older doctors will retire rather than submit? Why should they work just as hard for a great deal less money? Why should they tolerate having their medical judgment overridden by a bunch of penny-pinching bureaucrats? “First, do no harm” also prohibits doing nothing when treatment is indicated clearly.
B. How many physicians are already considering retiring from the practice of medicine because of the proposed ukases which would require them, under penalty of law, to perform abortions on demand.
C. Any young student with the brains to make it through medical school will tend to decide quickly that it would be far more sensible, faster, and lucrative to become a dentist or a veterinarian. Any good vet makes at least $100K, but socialized doctors don’t. This isn’t guesswork; it is the experience in Canada and England. A quick perusal of the literature reveals also that it is best not to become ill after June and that a dog can get an MRI the same week but people wait months, if they get them at all.
3. What effect will this have on the cost of medical and nursing schools? Silly question; tuition will go up because it costs the same amount to offer instruction and classrooms whether they are full or half full. We can prognosticate that less qualified applicants will be admitted because fewer will apply. Corners will be cut wherever possible. Fewer courses will be offered. Why train in procedures likely to be forbidden? Standards will be lowered. It may even become a great deal easier to pass the exams to be able to write “M.D.” after one’s name.
4. What is to be done with the clerks in all doctors’ offices who do nothing except handle insurance paperwork–and keep their doctors up to date on how to write up bills and lab requests to obtain the greatest return from insurance companies? Some of them may find jobs in the new bureaucracy, but one putative benefit of socialized medicine is that less paperwork will be needed to provide better records. Good insurance clerks are paid well, and deservedly so, for theirs is specialized work. We can suppose that those who train typists to transpose doctor’s recorded notes may find less business (knocking out their schools and a good at home source of income for quite a few), because a pretty good guess is that over-scheduled, under-paid doctors aren’t going to generate the sort of records we are accustomed to now.
5. The AMA and insurance companies have enormous lobbies, which makes one wonder why there isn’t any outcry from those areas. That is really a very interesting point upon which to speculate. What does the AMA expect to get out of this that is worth the price of tolerating bureaucrats to set fees and determine procedures? Do they think that going along will prevent even more Draconian cuts and restrictions, or can someone in the Bar today come up with a better answer to “Cui bono?”
6. Pharmaceutical companies spend lots of money in Washington; could it be that they do not expect the prices of their products to be cut as proponents of socialized medicine insist is one way costs will be controlled? Perhaps a lessening of the restrictions that make developing a new drug cost billions has been tendered? Again, what’s in it for Merck and Roche and Lilly not to scream their heads off? A good prediction is that only generics will be allowed to be prescribed, which is bad news for those of us for whom Synthroid is not an adequate substitute for Armour Thyroid, and a very nasty lump for Armour, which gets $90 from me, alone, every time I fill my prescription, instead of three or four bucks. What is the point of developing proprietary drugs if the cost cannot be recouped many times over?
7. We old-timers are being told we will simply have to learn to live with our aches and pains and that services will be cut for us in order to care for the younger population better. Doesn’t it make you feel all warm and fuzzy to know that you may not get a life-saving procedure because it “costs too much at your time of life and the money will be better spent on millions of lawbreakers granted amnesty and citizenship, instead?” Already there are services to help us find superior medical and dental care at deeply reduced prices in India, for example. However, if/when “Cap and Trade” is pushed through, what is that going to do to the airline industry? We may well end up with no viable way to obtain adequate health care at any price short of suborning our private physicians. I joked with mine when I saw him for routine blood work a couple of months ago that between the coming depression and socialized medicine we might end up skulking to meet in an alley at midnight, me with a chicken in my hand. My brilliant young physician, with enormous student loans, looked grim, and said, “I’ll take it!” Back in The Great Depression a chicken was considered a good fee, by the way.
8. Where will peripheral specialties come into all of this? Lasik surgery, for example. Will such surgeons be exempted, or will they be driven out of business because glasses were good enough for Benjamin Franklin?
“Is there a lawyer in the house?” It will, one can only suppose, be forbidden for medical personnel to assist in times of crisis, accident, or disaster since the law as drafted forbids practicing outside of the system. Few do anyway these days because of the danger of lawsuits.
If anyone here will admit to being an attorney, please take a shot at explaining the Constitutional justification for government controlled medicine, since it obviously isn’t going “to promote the general welfare.” While you’re at it, explain how anyone can justify making it a crime for a duly trained and licensed doctor to treat patients who seek his care.
For preliminary actions…just off hand, I would not invest in a chain of dialysis clinics or expect MRI apparatus to sell as well. We should probably be leery of many pharmaceutical companies. On an individual level, it might even be a good idea to go get heart by-pass surgery now if you expect to need it in the next few years, although there are better choices.
So…I’ll raise my glass of Lambrusco (full of healthful substances and a modest jolt of alcohol), and look forward to hearing your views on how to profit from what is coming our way.
Regards,
Linda Brady Traynham
May 5, 2009
Linda Brady Traynham
Linda Brady Traynham is a former editor and analytical project report writer and is now a Whiskey & Gunpowder field correspondent on a ranch in the Republic of Texas. She studied Counseling at Boston University and got her Masters degree in Philosophy from the University of Hawaii.
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As a Canadian, I am amazed by your irrational medical service fears.
Maybe too many shots of alcohol have destroyed your bodies at the whiskey bar.
Douglas C Trant
I hope the flu never cach U without money baby…jaja you are going to pray for a Socialized medicine and public hospitals…No!!! Face Cuba baby CUBA!!!!! VIVA CUBA!!!!!!!!!
What is the name or number of the bill mentioned above, I cant seem to find anything on it. I have done some of my own research into what other people in other countries think of their socialized medicine. They all seem to say that while its not perfect its not bad either. They in general prefer what they have than to something like what we have now. What we have now is so far away from what we had when I was a kid (not that long ago..1970s) I dont know if or how we could ever go back to that. I remember going to the family Dr for things like stiches, broken bones and the like. You cant really do that anymore. I guess we can blame it on laywers, malpractice suits and company funded health care plans. What we have now is a nightmare and completely broken. God forbid you lose your job, I know most of you believe that if you lose your job its your own fault and you should pick yourself up by your own bootstraps, but I know a lot of good people that I personally have just laid off in an area where unemployment is 16%. What are people like that supposed to do? We already have a socialistic healthcare system of sorts because no one is turned away at hospitals, so the people that do have insurance end up paying for ones that dont. It would be nice if we went back to everyone just paying their own way but all the walking dead retired people would scream bloody murder. Unfortunately we cant turn the clock back and if we do then someone is going to have to lose.
I apologize for the walking dead retired people charactarization, after reading it I realized that it is an awful and untrue statement. comments where you complain that you wont get your socialized medicine because someone else has a greater need really set me off. You are complaining about socialized medicine because you are afraid someone is going to cut into the benefits that you already enjoy. Thats just so sad.
what is the bill above? “The proposed law also makes it illegal for doctors to provide services outside of the system and it will determine what doctors and hospitals are paid”. I am healthcare finance and would really appreciate this info. thanks alot, great writing.
As I like to say, ‘there’s not much wrong with the USA that wouldn’t be fixed by a strictly literal interpretation of the 10th Amendment’.
The current system is so badly broken I for one am not afraid of any change. I am middle aged, self imployed, with a pre-existing condition. NO insurance is availiable to me at ANY price under the current system. I walk the precipice of financial ruin while insurance companys manage their risks to guarantee obscene profits from ill
Americans
My self imployed misspelling may be a new coinage. It some how sounds more accurate.
What you wrote is a classical scaremongering tactic of HMOs. Fact of the matter is, affordable health care is slipping through the cracks. There are millions uninsured, millions more working 2 jobs to have benefits, and some more people working at job ONLY for the benefits (they would rather work somewhere else). An egalitarian industry such as healthcare cannot and should not be built on profit incentive. Private sector failed to provide affordable healthcare, therefore other options have to come in play.
I am a Canadian citizen, born and raised. If the system in Canada is so awful, and I mean the whole system, including all of government as well as our health care, why is the good old USA in much worse economic shape than we are? Just asking.
I am amazed that all of the commentors are positive about socialized medicine. Canada has a population
of only 60+ million. California has a population of 40+ million and it is broke. We have a population of
300+million and we are going to provide quality health care to all? I don’t think so! For all practical purposes, The US government is “broke.” How much longer can we borrow/print US dollars before the
government finances implode? Based on current Medicare/Medicaid dollars paid out, what would be the
estimated outlay for national health coverage? Trillions??? There will abolutely have to be rationed health
care for all ages. Based on 40+years in the health care field, I can’t see any benefit to socialized medicine
beyond a very basic, limited technology health care. Beyond that level lies severe rationing. And you are
correct about quality of education as it is already happening. State board exams for nurses and doctors
have already been “dumbed-down” significantly because of “disparate impact.” in the last thirty years.
to Health Care Worker:
There is already “severe rationing” in America in that a large percentage of the population get zero health coverage/care. Your comments lead one to assume that the system is working in your estimation? or that NO improvements are possible? Maybe 40 years experience working in a broken system is not helpfull when trying to imagine alternatives.
Sorry Health Care Worker, our population is just over 30 million, not 60. I’m in Municipal government in a small prairie town. Our “great” health care system is usually graded positively by those who are healthy and negatively by those who need it. Everyone waits here, for everything. And few Canadians really know the true cost usually referring to health care as FREE. Not so! Canadian health care providing is a Provincial responsibility. The federal government contributes some funding through special transfers to the provinces. In my province, 42% of our provincial budget goes to health care. Provincial budgets are (by and large) funded the same way your states are. This is basically consistent across the country. Add to this that some provinces collect a monthly or annual medical fee from residents as well.
In our province, medical facilities require a local contribution of 10% of building construction costs. This cost is levied on local property owners through property taxes. Our town of 3300 residents with an annual budget of 2.5 million just had to borrow 2.8 million to pay for a personal care home (10% of cost). Soon we will need to come up with 10% of a 50 million dollar new hospital as soon as the Province decides to build it. All levied on property taxes. If we don’t pay it we loose our facility. Then there are the local property tax dollars allocated to fund a community clinic. Some $300,000 annually in our small town. Add as well the direct recruitment dollars spent to attract new physicians, who are in high demand. We also pay directly for ambulance transportation, prescriptions, prosthetic devices, private rooms in hospital, television (unless covered by an NPO) non-basic treatment (eg; fibreglass vs plaster cast) and a long list of other expenses.
Americans who are leary of public health care should be. I don’t think either our system or yours is ideal. perhaps there is some type of hybrid that would work. Like very basic public health care, with a premium supported upgraded program for those who want it.
The AMA could never explain why American doctors deserves to be paid about twice the average of other industrialized countries, while America pays the greatest amount of its GDP share to fund its healthcare.
I’ve thought about this and wrestled with this and come to the obvious conclusion that there are no easy answers. We in the USA have been a little bit pregnant for a long time- we have welfare, medicare, medicaid, VA, SCHIP, ad nauseum. In short, we have socialized medicine in a very expensive form- the taxpayers are paying for it but not getting it. The taxpayers are also buying their own very expensive prepaid medical plans in addition to these (If I choose to pay the COBRA right now in my situation, I will be paying out nearly $1100/month for a healthy family to be covered- and as a new business owner that is just not in the cards!)
So why don’t we finish being a little bit pregnant and go on entirely to birth our hermaphrodite bastard communist healthcare system? Hmmm- why not?
The problems are these- Bureaucratically run health care will be another huge boondoggle. You will give up your most precious privacy- In europe if they treat you for drug abuse I am told it is treated as a medical matter. Here in the USA, with its evangelical strain of politics, you may very well go to prison for a non-approved illness or condition. If not now, probably later- after all we’ve won the war on some drugs and have to keep winning it. And what if you have an… ahem “intimate” condition- a touch of herpes or chlamydia perhaps?
But the most basic consideration of all is- do we want freedom, or comfortable servitude? Because for socialized medicine to have a prayer of working it must jealously exclude any competitor which provides premium service for a premium- anything else would be counter to the glorious democratic revolution.
God save us.
I work in the Biotech industry. We sell machines made to detect various forms of cancer. 90% of our sales are made in the USA (even though the company is based in the Middle East) because of the non-socialized heath care. If socialized medicine passes in the US I expect to be out of a job fast. Because health care systems on restricted government budgets usually can’t afford the machines (and no we don’t over price them). And even on the odd chance that do get money form the government to get one THEY DON’T USE THE MACHINE AFTER THEY BUY IT. We have sold 2 systems to VA hospitals and neither machine was ever used, huge waste of taxpayer dollars. The problem with this is, if companies like the one I work for go out of business these important tests don’t get cheaper, they disappear. So yes healthcare DOES get worse in socialized medical systems, because the hospitals can’t afford the tests.
[...] What You Can Expect from Socialized Medicine [...]
Traynham: Your commenters are way smarter than you are… that’s the charitable interpretation. The realistic interpretation is that you are just a stinking liar. My first and last visit at this site, with regrets for the wasted time.
I may have a suggestion for how we can at least partially reform Medicare and Medicaid: Why not tax credits? It is a given that, if one subsidizes something, he gets more of it. So let the subsidy be in the form of a tax credit for doctors and/or other health care providers. Whatever credits they earn for medical services rendered to either the elderly or the indigent could be sold or traded on the capital markets. This would help provide liquidity to those concerned. May also diminish or eliminate the need for overweening bureaucracies, and allow the health care providers to practice medicine. Whaddaya think?
Dear Piglet:
Thank you for your witty, perceptive comments on my intelligence:
“Traynham: Your commenters are way smarter than you are… that’s the charitable interpretation. The realistic interpretation is that you are just a stinking liar. My first and last visit at this site, with regrets for the wasted time.”
Your courtesy and kindness are both appreciated. My apologies for not answering sooner, but I am really very modest and I hadn’t really expected anyone to write–imagine my surprise when two of my little essays had been published and I didn’t even know!–and I have been down with what I hope is H1N1 for the last nearly two weeks. (If I can “catch” the “Swine” flu this time around, I will gain precious immunity against the next iteration, you see, which may or may not be a smart way to view the matter.) My apologies, too, to other readers, and the assurance that your responses will be read eagerly as my increasing strength allows.
I’m not quite certain how you disagree with me, Piglet, so I would take it kindly if you wrote again to explain wherein I erred. I’m an old lady, you know, and my mind isn’t as sharp as it used to be. I’m having trouble following your line of reasoning.
However, when you read my article on dueling–W&G is addictive; how could you possibly not have returned? I do not accuse YOU of lying, dear Piglet, merely of being compelled beyond your will to read the instructive, entertaining articles to be found here–you learned that I am in favor of the sport as a means of ensuring decorum. I may widen my challenge when I totter back out of my bed and see how others feel about my little scribblings, but for now yours is the first response I read (a truly delightful one, I assure you, and I hope a fitting portent of the amusement value we all derive when engaging in scintillating debate), so let us put the matter to trial. I pride myself on NEVER tellng a lie, on ALWAYS asking when I do not know something, and on treating every individual with punctilious courtesy, so the best we can do at present is determine whether or not I am stupid and, indeed, not as intelligent as you are…
What would you, personally, say to a suggestion that we both go take the Miller Analogy Test for Graduate Admission and submit our scores to an independent judge for comparison? That’s simple, easy to arrange, conclusive for at least one area of intelligence, and I am under the impression that it takes at least weeks to arrange for MENSA testing. I wouldn’t know, dear, not being a member.
Do let me know if you like my idea or if you have a better suggestion to measure relative intelligence that will be more efficacious and fairer to both of us.
Sincerely,
Pooh–uh, Linda Brady Traynham
The gallery erupts as someone asks, “WHAT did she say?!” and Judge Number One replies, “She said she doesn’t like being called a liar or having her intelligence impugned. I give her a 9 for style and content, but docked her a point for being verbose.” Judge Number Two says, “I only gave her 7.5. Too long, and what if she can’t turn the piglet into pork bellies? Could be dangerous taking on an unknown opponent.” Judge Number Three (It’s my game, I get to answer for everyone) smiles, “It’s very simple. Let there be trial by combat! On with the pork bellies!” (Actually, my darling Charles weighed in with answer number three. I was going to make three’s reply a thoughtful…”In his shoes, I think I’d find out if the little lady has an advanced degree and, if so, whether she took the MAT or the GRE. I’ll give her an 8 on remaining cool under verbal assault, and lay a side bet that she did moderately well on the MAT!”
Great Gravy! There are eighteen replies! Better, some of you are debating the others, which is what I hoped to see, true, stimulating discussion where you can participate happily and passionately.
Truly–many, many thanks and let’s all have fun while we try to come up with viable ideas that may help us or others.
I’ve got the energy to do justice to one more before tottering back to bed, I hope, so…the IzeHaveItt, who wrote:
“I may have a suggestion for how we can at least partially reform Medicare and Medicaid: Why not tax credits? It is a given that, if one subsidizes something, he gets more of it. So let the subsidy be in the form of a tax credit for doctors and/or other health care providers. Whatever credits they earn for medical services rendered to either the elderly or the indigent could be sold or traded on the capital markets. This would help provide liquidity to those concerned. May also diminish or eliminate the need for overweening bureaucracies, and allow the health care providers to practice medicine. Whaddaya think?”
Dear Ize:
I think you’re on to something, but if we tweak it a little maybe, we might even get a legislator interested…
One of the biggest problems IS that there is no free lunch, and doctors and hospitals have to make up somehow for underpayments made for the socialized services we already have. Another (since I haven’t yet caused anyone to lay into me for being a religious nut) is “A workman is worthy of his hire.” I did an analysis recently (You haven’t seen it yet.), wherein I deduced that if we still had the same pay-as-you-go system we did in the mid-Fifties, without any insurance at all, a standard office call would cost $35 in today’s dollars. (It’s fun. You’ll like it. It’s also true!)
I’m saving the unhappy tale of the gentleman who has a pre-existing condition and is self-employed until I feeling less like a water buffalo stomped on me. His is a very unusual situation, but it does touch our hearts. Perhaps we CAN think of something to help him.
What can we offer doctors that makes their involuntary community service rewarding? Right now they don’t even get the satisfaction of having helped others (or I don’t, anyway, when the government demands my money or my freedom and spends the proceeds on people who don’t know they should thank me.)
Unfortunately, I don’t think the IRS or the Congressional budget committee is going to like giving physicians tax credits, and we’ll have to listen to another round of howls about “greedy, self-serving, mean-spirited, money-grubbing doctors,” or some such hogwash. Any doctors in the bar? What would YOU think reasonable recompense other than money? Maybe a DEFERRED tax credit on your IRA? That would defer actual additional costs a bit, be more “fair,” which I put in quotes to show I’m not using it as a Liberal would, and might even restore the sense that most of us love our doctors and are grateful for the care you provide.
One really big help, according an anaysis I saw lately, would be to come up with a free market solution to the truly obscene profits on pharmaceuticals. I’m caught between the traditional rock (my detestation of government putting its hands in private enterprise) and the hard place–that I don’t think profits in multiple thousands of percentages are really quite…fair…somehow. Yes, the pharmaceutical companies deserve to recoup their immense development costs and make enough to keep their incentives high, but perhaps a shorter patent period? The consumer is stuck: the doctor says drug X is necessary, and it is available only on prescription. I admit knowing WHICH ingredients which cost only pennies have to go in any given pill which will be sold for sometimes many dollars at present deserves resonable recompense for research, development, overhead, and a return on investment suitable to attract shareholders…
Let me go put my pounding head back down on my pillow, Ize, and contemplate the glories of the free market and how to keep Lilly, Roche, et al., feeling it is well worth their while to produce (forgive me! I DO love to play with words) “patented remedies,” while not making us cringe every time the doctor pulls out his prescription pad and we find out what the pharmacist is asking for various tablets and liquids, take it or leave it. Wan chuckle. Have you noticed that when a drug is “deregulated” and becomes available OTC (basically antihistamines, I think) that sometimes the price is more than it was when it was on prescription?! Of course, you don’t have to pay for an office visit…
Thanks again, Ize, for a good question that got my mind going. I’m only a consumer, not an expert on medical prices, but I know how I feel when the insurance company demands over 20 times what a generic would cost me when my physician says–and I can tell the difference physically–that in my case Synthroid is NOT a substitute for inescapable kinship with Piglet. What I take is made, literally, from the thyroids of pigs!
Y’all will find I can take care of myself verbally, so I hand that bit of ammo cheerfully to those who feel inclined to hurl invective at me. By my own words, I’m part pig!
Everybody start thinking, please. Bill Glasser’s great Reality Therapy involves asking only 3 questions and continuing to ask them until the client works out sensible answers. 1. What do I want? 2. How could I get it? 3. What am I getting out of what I’m doing now?
The Left’s call is for–”affordable” healthcare, an abstraction that defies pinning down under our microscope, and we certainly don’t want to here there should be “progressive” billing or “means testing.”
Let’s narrow this to Ize’s question of what incentives could be provided that don’t throw personal and governmental budgets even further out of whack. No, I don’t think they want “Doctors’ Day,” with greeting cards and presents. Maybe we can think of something, though, that might help. The free market starts with people thinking freely. So does basic compromise.
MY solution to most medical concerns is to build health, have my checkups, and other than that to ignore things like the whatever-it-is I got after spending a week very near a place with a hundred cases of “Swine” Flu. (No wonder I caught it, huh?! Must be the Thyroid medication.) I stayed away from others, get plenty of rest, take extra vitamin C, lots of liquids, a little Ibuprofen, and in time I will fight it off. The flu takes a couple of weeks to get over whether or not you take anything for it, assuming one is reasonably healthy and doesn’t get pneumonia. (No, that is not practicing medicine without a license, just what we have experienced. Like a cold, which lasts a week no matter what you do.) Sure, I could trot down and see a doctor, and the Medicare I am forced to pay over $1200/year for would pick up most of the bill, but why bother? I don’t need a doctor to know what the problem is, I’m clearly in no danger of dying from it, and I don’t feel well enough to go anywhere!
BTW, $1200 may sound ludicrously little to pay, until you consider that most years I go to the doctor ONCE primarily to get my prescription for thyroid renewed. The premium doesn’t cover dental expenses or the glasses I wear. From MY side of the debate I’d be a lot better of if I had a catastrophic care policy and just paid the doctor on those rare occasions when I need one. Got an article written on that, too, if anyone wants to see it. I’m a great believer in Adelle Davis, I haven’t had a cold in over a quarter of a century, and this is only my third bout of “flu” in that time. Could be just great genetic material, or it could be that nutrition, avoiding sugar, and smoking work! LBT
Dearest Rancher Lady,
I’ve tried to talk sense into the young socialists espousing the many virtues of socialized medicine who run rampant on the Internet, but as you know, it’s difficult to convince an idealist that the government doesn’t really have their best interests at heart.
It would help me greatly if you could provide the name/number of the proposed law to give my arguments more force. As it is, my rants are little more convincing than theirs.
Thanks.
As a Canadian, I am amazed by your irrational medical service fears.
Maybe too many shots of alcohol have destroyed your bodies at the whiskey bar.
Douglas C Trant
Dear Mr. Trant:
Thank you for your solicitous response, and I hope I can assuage your kindly fears about the state of my body. First, I virtually never drink any alcohol stronger than an occasional glass of sherry or a Mango Marguerita when we go out for Mexican food. Second, the ONLY “medical condition” I have is a low thyroid, which is not, to the best of my considerable knowledge, a condition related to over-consumption of alcohol. I have occasional bouts of asthma, which is an intelligence-related condition, which always seems strange to me: if we’re so smart, why do we have asthma?
I hold a Masters in Counseling and I am trying hard to think of any fears I have which are irrational…think, think…I’m afraid of dentists, snakes, the IRS, and driving on freeways full of those who may not have maintained their vehicles properly, have ‘cell phones in their hands, have marks on their vehicles which indicate they turn in front of others, and socialized anything. It does not seem, in my professional opinion, that any of those are irrational. It is not as though I were afraid of Raggedy Anne dolls, Twinkies, other than for nutritional reasons, or invaders from Mars.
I would be pleased to hear about your personal experiences with the Canadian system, and I would be gratified to hear that they have been all that one could wish, overturning totally all of the anecdotes I have heard or read for many year to the contrary.
Yours faithfully,
Linda Brady Traynham
Lalo May 5th, 2009 2:01 pm :
I hope the flu never cach U without money baby…jaja you are going to pray for a Socialized medicine and public hospitals…No!!! Face Cuba baby CUBA!!!!! VIVA CUBA!!!!!!!!!
Dear Lalo:
I am just a sweet little old lady who does not comprehend your unfamiliar linguistic system well, but I will do my best to reply.
First, I am just now recovering from what I hope was the “Swine” flu, since that will build immunity for the second wave, which, in the past, has generally hit four to six months later and tends to be far more virulent. I don’t know what money has to do with the flu, because my darling Charles and I trusted our bodies to deal with the symptoms, which were aches, a strong tendency to take naps, and late night coughing. We have health insurance, but there are times to go to the doctor and times to stay home and not expose others to contagion or risk contracting another disease, ourselves. This is the first time either of us has been ill all year, so we feel that the money health insurance costs us is wasted. However, I just turned 69 and he is almost 71, so it is conceivable that sometime in the next twenty years or so we may change our minds.
I really fail to see what Cuba has to do with it. Any system that can mess up anything as simple as growing simple as growing sugar cane, making rum, and producing cigars doesn’t sound like one I would like to entrust with overseeing doctors.
Please send me any statistical evidence that you can document, because I would be very interested in seeing it. If the hard figures are persuasive, perhaps I will reconsider. Is it possible to immigrate to Cuba?
LBT
oldmanriver May 5th, 2009 2:25 pm :
What is the name or number of the bill mentioned above, I cant seem to find anything on it DEAR OLD MAN RIVER: I DON’T THINK IT HAS A NUMBER YET; I’M GOING ON WHAT GOVERNMENT SOURCES AND CONGRESSIONAL MEMBERS HAVE SAID OR WRITTEN IN THE PAST, BOTH DISTANT AND RECENT. . I have done some of my own research into what other people in other countries think of their socialized medicine. They all seem to say that while its not perfect its not bad either. They in general prefer what they have than to something like what we have now. HOW WOULD THEY KNOW? What we have now is so far away from what we had when I was a kid (not that long ago..1970s) I dont know if or how we could ever go back to that. I remember going to the family Dr for things like stiches, broken bones and the like. You cant really do that anymore. TELL ME ABOUT IT! I DID AN ANALYSIS RECENTLY, COMPARING WHAT AN OFFICE VISIT COST COMPARED TO THINGS LIKE SHOES, GASOLINE, AND HAMBURGERS, AND IN TODAY’S MONEY IT SHOULD BE $35 IF THERE WERE NO OTHER FACTORS. I guess we can blame it on laywers, malpractice suits and company funded health care plans. YOU GOT IT! EXTRA COSTS FOR DOCTORS IN TERMS OF STAFF AND NOT BEING REIMBURSED FULLY FOR MEDICARE AND MEDICADE, THE PRICE OF MALPRACTICE INSURANCE, THE LITIGIOUS SOCIETY… What we have now is a nightmare and completely broken. I DISAGREE COMPLETELY. IT WORKS VERY WELL FOR MOSRT PEOPLE, ALTHOUGH IT COSTS MORE THAN IT SHOULD. God forbid you lose your job, I know most of you believe that if you lose your job its your own fault and you should pick yourself up by your own bootstraps, but I know a lot of good people that I personally have just laid off in an area where unemployment is 16%. What are people like that supposed to do? We already have a socialistic healthcare system of sorts because no one is turned away at hospitals, so the people that do have insurance end up paying for ones that dont. YUP. It would be nice if we went back to everyone just paying their own way DOUBLE YUP. FAR SIMPLER, FAR MORE COST-EFFECTIVE, AND WE SHOULN’T BE PAYING FOR THE DRAIN OF ILLEGAL ALIENS ANYWAY but all the walking dead retired people would scream bloody murder. Unfortunately we cant turn the clock back and if we do then someone is going to have to lose. SURE WE CAN TURN THE CLOCK BACK. IT WOULDN’T BE EASY, BUT IT WOULD BE A LOT MORE SENSIBLE THAN DESTROYING WHAT WORKS FOR MOST OF US. GET RID OF THE LEECHES, FOR A START. RIGHT. SURE. HOW DO YOU DEFINE “WALKING DEAD RETIRED PEOPLE?” REMEMBER I’M AN ANCIENT, MYSELF…OF COURSE, I’VE ONLY BEEN ILL THREE TIMES IN THE LAST QUARTER OF A CENTURY, INCLUDING COMING DOWN WITH WHAT MAY BE THE SWINE FLU TWO WEEKS AGO. I DIDN’T GO TO THE DOCTOR, BECAUSE HOME CARE USUALLY WORKS JUST AS WELL. MOST YEARS WHAT I PAY FOR HEALTH INSURANCE IS A DEAD WASTE BECAUSE ALL I GO IN FOR IS A GENERAL CHECKUP AND TO HAVE MY ONE PRESCRIPTION RENEWED! BUILD HEALTH, AND STAY AWAY FROM HOSPITALS. PEOPLE DIE THERE!
LOOKING FORWARD TO HEARING FROM YOU AGAIN,
LBT
oldmanriver May 5th, 2009 2:32 pm :
I apologize for the walking dead retired people charactarization, after reading it I realized that it is an awful and untrue statement. comments where you complain that you wont get your socialized medicine because someone else has a greater need really set me off. You are complaining about socialized medicine because you are afraid someone is going to cut into the benefits that you already enjoy. Thats just so sad.
DEAR OLD MAN RIVER:
APOLOGY ACCEPTED, THANK YOU. YOU MUST HAVE MISSED WHERE MR. OBAMA AND HIS FRIENDS SAID THAT WE OLD FOLKS ARE GOING TO HAVE “TO LEARN TO LIVE WITH THE ACHES AND PAINS OF OLD AGE AND CONDITIONS WHICH COULD BE ALLEVIATED BY SURGERY OR PHARMACEUTICALS BECAUSE THEY WILL COST TOO MUCH.”
YOU ARE THIRTY YEARS YOUNGER THAN I AM. WHEN YOUR TIME COMES WILL YOU WANT TO BE TOLD YOU CANNOT HAVE TREATMENT FOR ARTHRITIS, OR HIP REPLACEMENT SURGERY, OR A MEDICATION THAT KEEPS YOU IN CONTROL OF YOUR BLADDER BECAUSE SOME BUREAUCRAT HAS DECIDED THEY COST TOO MUCH? THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT POLITICIANS IN WASHINGTON ARE SAYING ABOUT THE PROPOSED SYSTEM.
I’M NOT AFRAID THAT ANYONE IS GOING TO CUT THE BENEFITS I ENJOY, BECAUSE THERE REALLY AREN’T VERY MANY OF THEM–AND I PAID A LOT FOR THEM OVER THE COURSE OF MY LIFETIME. I SWITCHED TO PRIVATE DOCTORS IN 1992, EVEN THOUGH I WAS ENTITLED THEN TO “FREE” MEDICAL CARE AT ARMY BASES. (NOW, I BELIEVE, MOST OF THEM ONLY TREAT ACTIVE DUTY MEMBERS AND THEIR FAMILIES, ALTHOUGH WE WERE PROMISED CARE FOR LIFE WHEN MY HUSBAND CHOSE TO MAKE THE MILITARY HIS CAREER.) I WAS TOLD THAT I COULD HAVE AN APPOINTMENT SIX WEEKS LATER TO MAKE AN APPOINTMENT TO HAVE AN ORDINARY GYN CHECKUP. ON TOP OF THAT, MY INSURANCE THROUGH JOHN’S WORK WOULD BE CHARGED! LUDICROUS. I THANKED THE LADY POLITELY, HUNG UP, CALLED THE BEST GYN IN TOWN, AND HAD AN APPOINTMENT TWO DAYS LATER.
AS THE WIDOW, DAUGHTER, DAUGHTER-IN-LAW, SISTER, AUNT, NIECE, AND COUSIN OF CAREER MILITARY MEN, I KNOW ALL ABOUT SOCIALIZED MEDICINE. WHEN IT IS GOOD, IT IS QUITE GOOD. IF YOU DON’T MIND LONG WAITS, SELDOM SEEING THE SAME DOCTOR TWICE, AND FEW BLOOD TESTS OR OTHER PROCEDURES WHICH REQUIRE MACHINERY THE HOSPITAL DOESN’T HAVE.
LINDA BRADY TRAYNHAM
johnstott May 5th, 2009 4:15 pm :
what is the bill above? “The proposed law also makes it illegal for doctors to provide services outside of the system and it will determine what doctors and hospitals are paid”. I am healthcare finance and would really appreciate this info. thanks alot, great writing.
DEAR JOHN:
THANKS FOR YOUR NICE LETTER. I’M STILL A LITTLE FUZZY-HEADED FROM THE FLU, AND I DON’T THINK THERE IS AN ACTUAL NUMBER FOR THE BILL YET. I READ BITS AND PIECES FROM A WIDE VARIETY OF SOURCES, AND WHILE I CAN’T ACTUALLY RECALL AT THE MOMENT WHERE I SAW THE THINGS ABOUT IT BEING ILLEGAL TO SEEK OR PROVIDE CARE OUTSIDE THE SYSTEM, I COULDN’T HAVE MADE A MISTAKE ABOUT ANYTHING THAT SHOCKING. WOULD YOU MIND USING GOOGLE OR ANOTHER SEARCH ENGINE AND SEEING WHAT YOU CAN FIND? I READ A LOT OF STATEMENTS BY CONGRESS PEOPLE. THEY’VE BEEN WORKING ON THIS FOR A LONG TIME, SO I’M SURE THEY ARE COMBINING HILLARY CARE WITH A BOOK WRITTEN BY ONE OF MR. OBAMA’S APPOINTMENTS WHO WAS DISQUALIFIED FOR TAX FRAUD (CAN’T REMEMBER WHICH ONE, AT THE MOMENT. THIS IS ONLY THE THIRD TIME I HAVE BEEN ILL IN THE LAST 25 YEARS AND IT’S NASTY! ACHES, A TENDENCY TO TAKE LOTS OF NAPS, CONSTANT LOW-GRADE HEADACHE…UGH.) AND EVERY OTHER LIBERAL DREAM LYING AROUND. WE ALREADY KNOW THAT THE NEW BILL WILL SET PRICES; THAT’S WHAT MEDICARE AND MEDICADE DO, AND ONE OF THE BIGGEST PARTS OF THE PROBLEM. TODAY I WAS READING A PIECE ON HOW THE NEW SYSTEM WILL ALLOW ALL SORTS OF ABUSES OF PRIVATE INFORMATION, AND TOLD OF HOSPITALS TAKING BITS OF DNA FROM NEWBORNS FOR RESEARCH AND PROPOSALS THAT KIDS DIAGNOSED AS POTENTIAL TROUBLE-MAKERS HAVE THEIR DNA TAKEN FOR USE SHOULD THEY EVER BECOME DERANGED OR ACCUSED OF A CRIME! SHADES OF EUGENICS PROGRAMS AND THE THIRD REICH.
SORRY I CAN’T HELP MORE AT THE MOMENT, BUT WHEN I’M BACK TO BEING ME I’LL SEE IF I CAN COME UP WITH A BETTER ANSWER FOR YOU.
CORDIALL YOURS,
LBT
Wag May 6th, 2009 7:01 am :
As I like to say, ‘there’s not much wrong with the USA that wouldn’t be fixed by a strictly literal interpretation of the 10th Amendment’.
PREACH ON, WAG!!! OF COURSE, THEN WE’D HAVE TO GET MORE INVOLVED LOCALLY TO KEEP THINGS SENSIBLE, ONCE WE’D GOTTEN RID OF MILLIONS OF PAGES OF REGULATIONS AND OVER A HUNDRED TAXES…
LBT
R Sproul May 6th, 2009 11:59 am :
The current system is so badly broken I for one am not afraid of any change. I am middle aged, self imployed, with a pre-existing condition. NO insurance is availiable to me at ANY price under the current system. I walk the precipice of financial ruin while insurance companys manage their risks to guarantee obscene profits from ill
Americans
Dear Mr. Sproul:
I was touched by your letter and have been thinking about it around trying to recuperate from the flu. Would you mind answering a few fairly personal questions? Here they are: what is your pre-exiting condition, and what do you do for a living? Finally, how severely does your condition interfere with your ability to work?
This is not vulgar curiosity. I have been wondering if your problem could be alleviated by alternative medicine or an orthomolecular physician whose specialty is treating diseases through nutritional means. Is it possible that your employment is a contributing factor, possibly through allergic reactions?
May the Lord bless you and send an answer to your problem.
LBT
Death2HMOS May 6th, 2009 1:27 pm :
What you wrote is a classical scaremongering tactic of HMOs. Fact of the matter is, affordable health care is slipping through the cracks. There are millions uninsured, millions more working 2 jobs to have benefits, and some more people working at job ONLY for the benefits (they would rather work somewhere else). An egalitarian industry such as healthcare cannot and should not be built on profit incentive. Private sector failed to provide affordable healthcare, therefore other options have to come in play.
DEAR DEATH TO HMOS:
What an interesting way to style yourself! I am sorry to disagree and say that YOURS are the classic scare tactics. For example, those working two jobs? Part time work almost never has “benefits.” Those who accept jobs only for the benefits made their choices, and they have no right to demand jobs they like or make health insurance a condition of employment.
Private sector healthcare worked splendidly. The problem began when health insurance became a “benefit” and then an “entitlement.”
It is not the case that it is your right to decree that “other options” “HAVE” to come into play. What about all of those who are quite satisfied with what they have? Why should THEY be obliged to settle for less efficient, more expensive, even though the costs are hidden, plans?
Here is a compromise: perhaps there should be a government plan that is available at actuarial estimates of cost. It would be far better to go back to the time before there was any health insurance at all other than catastrophic care policies.
I have a very simple solution. I take care of myself, and I don’t get sick. I am recuperating from the flu, at present, the third time I have been ill in the last quarter of a century. I did not go to the doctor, because the chances are very high that nothing he could do would have more than a placebo effect. I don’t get colds, period. I don’t do a lot of things most of you do, such as drink soft drinks constantly throughout the day or view fats and eggs with horror.
This isn’t really a “health care” issue, it is a matter of the proper role of government. There is no reason why I should be forced to pay for the health care needs of others, any more than I should pay for their food or housing.
LBT
CanadaNorth May 6th, 2009 10:28 pm :
I am a Canadian citizen, born and raised. If the system in Canada is so awful, and I mean the whole system, including all of government as well as our health care, why is the good old USA in much worse economic shape than we are? Just asking.
CANADA, you wretch! And after we had such a nice discussion about motor vehicles! No, I guess this was written first.
I never said your whole system was awful. I wouldn’t have dreamed of criticizing your government! I was only talking about all the reports I have read for many years, including recently, and the discussions I have had with Canadians. You’re very nice people, but a lot of you seem to have very odd ideas about the USA. There was a time when I was in Vancouver (BC, of course) half a dozen times a year and in Victoria at least once or twice, and I always found that once we got over or past what politicians were doing we liked each others.
Why is our economic system worse off than yours at present? Because we have worse politicians than you do at present! Because they are influenced by those who are willing to destroy any amount of wealth in the name of junk science.
What part of Canada do you hail from? I love Victoria…your great Opera house, Little India, the pretty streets and beautiful scenery, the hundreds of different specialized restaurants…
Linda
Sorry, Canada. I meant I love VANCOUVER. Victoria is a very pretty picturesque tourist trap (and we have more of those than you do, although not nearly as nice!) Victoria is where I used to take visitors (we lived in Tacoma, near Seattle) because they liked the government buildings, tea at the Empress, the harbor, the wax museum, and China Town. For a great vacation, give me Vancouver. My husband and the kids went skiing for a week every year…a little farther over to the right on the map, what is the name of that place? I know it so well, but my head is still full of goo.
Cordially,
Linda
Health Care Worker May 7th, 2009 9:32 am :
I am amazed that all of the commentors are positive about socialized medicine. Canada has a population
of only 60+ million. California has a population of 40+ million and it is broke. We have a population of
300+million and we are going to provide quality health care to all? I don’t think so! WHEE-HOO, HEALTH CARE WORKER, HIT ‘EM AGAIN!
For all practical purposes, The US government is “broke.” How much longer can we borrow/print US dollars before the
government finances implode? Based on current Medicare/Medicaid dollars paid out, what would be the
estimated outlay for national health coverage? Trillions??? TRILLIONS, INDEED. THE ROUGHLY A QUARTER OF THE POPULATION THAT WE’RE SUPPORTING NOW HAS DRAINED US DRY, NOT COUNTING THE INCREDIBLE SUMS WE’VE THROWN AWAY ABROAD SINCE THE END OF WWII TO ALMOST NO GOOD THAT I CAN SEE. There will abolutely have to be rationed health
care for all ages. Based on 40+years in the health care field, I can’t see any benefit to socialized medicine
beyond a very basic, limited technology health care. AAAAAH. THANK YOU. Beyond that level lies severe rationing. And you are
correct about quality of education as it is already happening. State board exams for nurses and doctors
have already been “dumbed-down” significantly because of “disparate impact.” in the last thirty years. BLESS YOU, MY FRIEND, FOR THESE KIND WORDS AND CORROBORATION FROM SOMEONE IN THE FIELD. A TERRIFIC LETTER THAT DESERVES WIDER DISPERSAL. PLEASE WRITE AGAIN IF YOU HAVE ANECDOTES TO SHARE. CORDIALLY, LINDA
R Sproul May 7th, 2009 9:49 am :
to Health Care Worker:
There is already “severe rationing” in America in that a large percentage of the population get zero health coverage/care. Your comments lead one to assume that the system is working in your estimation? or that NO improvements are possible? Maybe 40 years experience working in a broken system is not helpfull when trying to imagine alternatives.
Dear Mr. Sproul:
We like facts and figures around here. What is “a large percentage?” Where did you get your information? Let’s see…we’ve got those who work and pay for health insurance, and those who work and get health insurance from the government or the military, and millions of illegal aliens and those on Medicare/Medicade…who is it not getting any, and why?
HCW didn’t say that no improvements were possible, and HCW and I are not responsible for imagining alternatives.
We in the Whiskey Bar, at least in the little corner they let me huddle in, in my curmudgeonly manner, don’t run on blind emotion when dealing with dealing with investments, self-responsibility, the proper, restricted role of government, and retaining the freedom to manage our own finances.
One on one I was distressed to hear of your problems, but that’s because I’m a very nice lady who helps others whenever I see a need and can. As an analyst, the only interest I have in the health care system is in terms of what it is going to cost and what effect that catastrophic cost is going to have on heartless entities like the DJIA and the gross national product. There is no free lunch, no matter how many times people keep putting their hands in mine. YOU want a different solution because YOU have a problem. I don’t have a problem–other than that I’m already paying for far more than I get–and I see no reason why your solution should come out of my pocket. You seem to think that you have a “right” to free healthcare. Why don’t I have a similar right to “free” gasoline, that you will be taxed to pay for, or “free” firewood that you should cut for me? My dog needs a bath. Surely SOMEONE is responsible for washing her. Where do you draw the line on taking care of our own responsibilities?
Unsympathetically yours,
LBT
DEAR WESTERN CANADIAN:
WHAT A FANTASTIC LETTER! THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR CLEAR, PAINFUL DESCRIPTION OF JUST HOW THE SYSTEM WORKS AT THE LOCAL LEVEL. I’VE GOT SHIVERS UP MY SPINE AT THE THOUGHT OF ENDLESS DEMANDS FOR 10% OF THE COST FOR NEW BUILDINGS AND SO FORTH, ON TOP OF TAXES COLLECTED TO BE RETURNED FROM OTTAWA. HOW CAN 3300 PEOPLE POSSIBLY COME UP WITH THE SUMS BEING EXTORTED FROM YOU? HOW CAN YOU NEED A $50,000,000 HOSPITAL FOR A TOWN OF 3300, EVEN INCLUDING THOSE IN OUTLYING VILLAGES AND HAMLETS? WHO PAYS THE DOCTORS? IS A PERSONAL CARE HOME WHAT WE MIGHT CALL A “NURSING CARE FACILITY” OR AN “OLD FOLKS’ HOME?” IS IT SOMEWHERE OLDER PEOPLE GO UNTIL THEY ARE WELL ENOUGH TO GO HOME BUT DON’T REALLY NEED TO BE IN HOSPITAL, OR ARE THEY THERE UNTIL THEY DIE? THANK YOU AGAIN, BECAUSE YOU ARE CLEARLY A GOLD MINE OF INFORMATION! LINDA
Sorry Health Care Worker, our population is just over 30 million, not 60. I’m in Municipal government in a small prairie town. Our “great” health care system is usually graded positively by those who are healthy and negatively by those who need it. Everyone waits here, for everything. And few Canadians really know the true cost usually referring to health care as FREE. Not so! Canadian health care providing is a Provincial responsibility. The federal government contributes some funding through special transfers to the provinces. In my province, 42% of our provincial budget goes to health care. Provincial budgets are (by and large) funded the same way your states are. This is basically consistent across the country. Add to this that some provinces collect a monthly or annual medical fee from residents as well.
In our province, medical facilities require a local contribution of 10% of building construction costs. This cost is levied on local property owners through property taxes. Our town of 3300 residents with an annual budget of 2.5 million just had to borrow 2.8 million to pay for a personal care home (10% of cost). Soon we will need to come up with 10% of a 50 million dollar new hospital as soon as the Province decides to build it. All levied on property taxes. If we don’t pay it we loose our facility. Then there are the local property tax dollars allocated to fund a community clinic. Some $300,000 annually in our small town. Add as well the direct recruitment dollars spent to attract new physicians, who are in high demand. We also pay directly for ambulance transportation, prescriptions, prosthetic devices, private rooms in hospital, television (unless covered by an NPO) non-basic treatment (eg; fibreglass vs plaster cast) and a long list of other expenses.
Americans who are leary of public health care should be. I don’t think either our system or yours is ideal. perhaps there is some type of hybrid that would work. Like very basic public health care, with a premium supported upgraded program for those who want it.
I stumbled upon your article when I was looking into the evils of socialized medicine. I love your article and I agree one Trillion percent. (Ironically, just what we can expect as the start up cost for this nightmare). I think your responses to the naysayers are priceless. I guess you have a new “fan girl”. I also loved your piece about tobacco taxing. For the life of me, I simply don’t understand how people can STILL be under the delusion that the government has our best interest at heart. Do people really have this much faith in our government? It baffles me that people don’t see all of the waste, greed and corruption. This plan doesn’t even address what the government says is the issue, unaffordable health care. Nothing that I have seen from them would indicate how this would drive premiums or out of pocket costs down and make health care affordable. So, once again, we have another “solution” from the government that doesn’t address the real issue. SHOCKER. I want the government to get off of my lawn and out of my pockets. I could go on and on, but you get my point.
P.S. I see no one answered your question on how to profit from all of this. I assume that is because there is no way to profit from all of this. The only obvious way is to simply take only patients that will pay for services out of their own pocket. Physicians can lower their fees a little bit and refuse to take government sponsored insurance. Ha ha ha…as if THAT will be allowed.